•

Valve unintentionally set the stage for today's digital economic hellscape, according to its former economist in residence

https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/valve-unintentionally-set-the-stage-for-todays-digital-economic-hellscape-according-to-its-former-economist-in-residence/

Yanis Varoufakis says we're in the age of "technofeudalism," and TF2 hats brought us there.

Valve unintentionally set the stage for today's digital economic hellscape, according to its former economist in residence

69 comments

Kolanaki

•

I definitely agree that Valve is responsible for the MTX hellscape in gaming because of TF2's hats. People thought Oblivion's Horse Armor for $5 was insane; but I would be shouted down bringing up the $25 for a single video game hat when TF2 started adding that shit. It was so much worse and that system was the one adopted by everyone and what evolved into the current "live service" systems damn near every new AAA game has now.

Unintentionally though? They were one of the loudest proponents of "games as a service" back in the day.

Famko

•

More problematically, TF2 popularized loot boxes in the form of Mann Co. supply crates, starting the trend of adding essentially gambling to online multiplayer games.

warm

•

Actually EA popularised that with FIFA Ultimate Team and pack opening. TF2 is very very small in comparison. After FUTs success, the loot box trend really set off.

Sylvartas

•

TF2 proved it was a viable model

Trollception

•

No, that's steam, we don't speak bad about steam here.

magic_lobster_party

•

They were one of the loudest proponents of "games as a service" back in the day.

Among the old PS3 conferences there’s this one where Portal 2 is announced for PS3. While everybody else tried to make 3D TV gaming and motion controls the next big thing, Gabe just enters the stage and describes how they believe games as a service is the future.

They were so far ahead. Everybody struggled to figure out what the next big thing is going to be. Valve had already figured it out.

warm

•

At least I can sell my TF2 hats.

But the fact people spend $60 on a skin in a game, for just one character or weapon, is absolutely fucking insane. Not that I agree with any paid game selling cosmetics for any price.

MelodiousFunk

•

But the fact people spend $60 on a skin in a game, for just one character or weapon, is absolutely fucking insane.

My nephew got very excited about the Transformers skins coming to Overwatch. I let him have his hype cycle (we are both Transformers fans), then asked him how much it cost. I told him he could buy an entire game for that much. Then, on his own, he started analyzing the pricing, and how buying 3 of the 4 on their own is more than buying the whole pack. Which segued nicely into how companies use price to steer people into buying specific things.

But he was still iffy until I told him that the same money could buy 2-3 HG Gundam kits. The next day he told me that he had bought an RG kit instead. Works for me.

warm

•

Respect to him.

ruse8145

•

I'm so torn between "good that the kids learning to do the math" and "kid is still basically paying for Barbie dream house clothing packs which change the actual game exactly 0"

Net positive I think, and good on op for nudging kinder the right direction, but...damn have game companies gotten us under their fingers.

warm

•

"Oh come on, you know you want the shiny, it's only $60!"

Chozo

•

It's absolutely absurd what people are willing to pay for cosmetics. I'm not about to tell anybody what they should do with their own money; do whatever makes you feel happy, even if that means buying a digital hat. But I've seen some wild shit.

I used to be one of the top-rated middlemen in the TF2 trading scene, and was a SteamRep admin for several years. This was back before Steam Marketplace existed and before there were reliable, bot-managed escrow services for these grey market sales. I oversaw some pretty big trades in that time. I remember one of the larger ones I oversaw was for a BFTC, and I think the buyer spent over $1000 on it.

And you can bet your ass I played a few games with it on while I waited for them to finalize the payment; I'm no better than a valet taking your car for a joyride while you eat dinner. :)

warm

•

Yeah, it's your money, spend it how you want (but please stop buying skins). It's a tough one, I guess we are stuck with it though unless a major attitude shift happens suddenly. I think a lot of people forgot or never experienced games before MTX were rampant, so they literally don't know any better.

That's crazy yeah, there's CS skins these days going for tens of thousands. I heard there was an AK sold for over a million, whether or not that was true I don't know, but the fact I think it could be really says a lot about the current state of video games.

PlzGivHugs

•

It is worth noting that unlike something like a League or Overwatch skin, and even a lot of early TF2 trading, modern CS and Dota skins have more emphasis put on their marketability and speculative value. For example, I've bought a few CS skins that I don't use, purely because I expect their value to increase over the next couple years. Of course, thats not all of the buyers, but that influences the purchase, and allows for those valuations unlike a Fortnite skin with a fixed price tag set by Epic with zero recoupable value.

warm

•

Yes, but the market is still designed to make Valve money and they are using that as a marketing tool to entice you in. The more desirable skins are a lot more expensive than they would be in Fortnite or whatever. The upside is that you can sell and trade them, so you can actually recoup at least 85% of the value (or more), the downside being that the money stays in Valve's ecosystem. Ignoring 3rd-party markets here, where you can risk selling for real money.

warm

•

Kolanaki

•

At least I can sell my TF2 hats.

If you actually got one from a crate or very early on when they dropped super rarely by just playing, you can. If you buy them directly from the store (where the base price was $25; not sure what they are today if even still available) you cannot resell them on the market.

You're much more likely to spend well over that same $25 buying keys to unlock crates for the slim chance at getting one than just buying it straight up. Which is why they are super expensive on the market.

Sylvartas

•

TF2's hats were just the beginning. The shit they've pulled with my beloved dota 2 over the years ended up disgusting me away from the game altogether

jacecomix

•

Dota Plus killed it for me. I used to buy every TI Battle Pass + Extra Levels but the paywalling the QOL and Analytics was disgusting.

index

•

It's 100% intentional

stardust

•

I think mobile monetization is what most people experienced first. Was the first ad driven games and mtx was something pretty much anyone that had a phone encountered with it not being platform specific. So I feel like mobile was the main driving force with the initial low cost and free apps and need to monetize then turning out to be an absolute hit.

I never experienced TF2 since I wasn't PC gaming back then. But the mainstream success of mobile and the low/free app costs made what would happen to "traditional " gaming inevitable.

BigTrout75

•

Valve is the only good thing in the hellscape. Linux support, cheap games and free multiplayer.

Who else provides this?

ruse8145

•

Gog

archchan

•

Linux support

sugar_in_your_tea

•

To be fair, they do a decent job providing Linux compat for games they support. They just don't do anything on the launcher side.

PenisDuckCuck9001

•

Doing nothing is still more than some companies do. Some go out of their way to ensure their game won't run on Linux.

sugar_in_your_tea

•

Fortunately, it's mostly MP games, and I very rarely play MP games.

Dark_Arc

•

Then there's me that pretty much only plays multiplayer games... 😥

Blessed are those that still find joy playing single player games

cordlesslamp

•

GOG doesn't have regional pricing.

Mnemnosyne

•

I'm unclear as to whether you're saying this is a positive or negative.

I see it as a positive - it means they have a price and that price is the same for everyone without favoritism.

cordlesslamp

•

Negative. As someone who lives in a 3rd-world country where minimum wage is $0.75/hr, even a senior accountant position would be lucky to earn $750/mo working 10-12hours a day. So pardon me for not favoring the idea of "equals price for everyone".

For us down here, it's either Steam Regional Pricing or the high sea.

index

•

Did you read the article? One of their really own says they are to blame for the hellscape!

Valve's implementation of its in-game stores and the Steam marketplace, Varoufakis says, emerged from a need to balance monetization with a fear that if the company didn't create its own systems for exchange between players, they would "take it outside"

They are a for profit company, they most likely support linux so that people don't "take it outside" their useless proprietary launcher.

SynonymousStoat

•

"...their useless proprietary launcher." Steam is by far the least useless launcher out there. Steam has so many incredibly useful features such as remote play together, community controller layouts, the workshop, cloud saves, family library sharing, etc. Not to mention that they continue to keep adding new features that no other launcher is even close to having such as the new game recording feature that is currently in beta.

Sure, Valve charge a pretty decent amount to game developers for the sale of a game, but they provide a load of features in exchange.

DAMunzy

•

And it's been said by many developers that they literally 100x their sales when they go to Steam. PCs are an open ecosystem.

Not directed at OP.

ruse8145

•

PCs are, steam is not

YeetPics

•

What do I run Steam on 🤔🤔🤔🤔. Can't remember on such short notice. Any ideas?

index

•

you don't need a third party launcher to run software

SynonymousStoat

•

You're right, I don't, but it sure as hell makes it a lot easier to keep the hundreds of games that I have purchased organized. Not to mention I don't have to manually keep each of the 95 games I currently have installed updated or have to worry about backing up game saves or having them available across multiple different devices with zero effort from myself.

Steam isn't perfect, but it does add a massive amount of value for consumers like myself who take advantage of a lot of the different features that are mostly unique to Steam as a platform.

Also, I believe when a developer releases a game on Steam they are given the opportunity to use Steamworks, which provides a lot of potentially useful tools for a game deceloper.

index

•

You’re right, I don’t, but it sure as hell makes it a lot easier to keep the hundreds of games that I have purchased organized.

You are trading your privacy and freedom over your disorganization and lazyness

Steam isn’t perfect, but

Reddit has many of the fancy comsumer features you seem to love perhaps you should go back there

ruse8145

•

It's primary purpose is DRM which is a net burden to society. Everything else you list is to help you forget that.

30% is mad decent. For all the haters on California's insane tax, steam takes a 3x larger cut on all income, and California build roads with it. Steam maybe develops half-baked features.

nooneescapesthelaw

•

The steam drm is basically non-existent, in fact pirated games use steam specifically to participate in multiplayer with cracked versions

SynonymousStoat

•

It's a developers choice to release on Steam with DRM, Valve does not enforce it, there are games with no DRM on Steam.

Half baked features? I don't remember the last time I tried using one of Steam's features that I listed (and others I didn't list) and it didn't work incredibly well.

Don't get me wrong, I believe DRM generally only causes problems for paying customers and I'd be much happier without it, but I think Steam's DRM is one of the least invasive solutions that currently exist.

sugar_in_your_tea

•

Exactly. Steam DRM is totally up to the developers to use or not. So don't be mad at Valve for devs using it, be mad at the devs. But remember, if they aren't using Steam's DRM, they're probably going to use something much worse.

Steam is an incredibly user-friendly launcher. They have useful features, and I've honestly never had any problems with anything on their platform. It just works, and that's about all I can ask for as a user.

YeetPics

•

You can manage the file destinations and launch .exe's without loading the Steam client.

Are you sure you know enough about this to be loudly proclaiming your hot take without looking like a jackass?

awesome_lowlander

•

One of their former own, who is now trying to drum up publicity to sell his book.

Passerby6497

•

they most likely support linux so that people don’t “take it outside”

I'm amazed you're attempting to make "company supports platform desired by customers" sound like a bad thing.

their useless proprietary launcher.

You should make it less obvious you have axe to grind, because this statement shows that your opinion isn't really valid about PC gaming. I'd love to see you find a launcher that offers everything that Valve's "useless" launcher.

I'll wait.

index

•

Instead of waiting you could start to use software that doesn't require you to go through a third party proprietary launcher

https://libregaming.org/play-libre-games/

Passerby6497

•

I'd love to see you find a launcher that offers everything that Valve's "useless" launcher.

https://libregaming.org/play-libre-games/

L. O. L. When asked for a launcher that is feature comparable, you give me that?

I've played a few of the libre games linked there. I'll stick with steam, thanks but no thanks.

index

•

I’ve played a few of the libre games linked there. I’ll stick with steam, thanks but no thanks.

no problems, you can play these games anytime you want, you don't need a proprietary launcher to run these

Passerby6497

•

Sure, but I can watch paint dry without needing a proprietary launcher too.

Free != Good, but I won't yuck someone else's yum just because I'm not a fan. I'm just not going to pretend it's a good alternative.

YeetPics

•

Oh no, they listened to their demographic and gave people what they wanted so they didn't go elsewhere?! How fucking terrible.

CookieOfFortune

•

Is it a hellscape?

The last two GOTYs have no micro transactions. The new Elden Ring DLC is more of a traditional expansion

Indie gaming is alive and well and it’s easier than ever to develop and publish.

holgersson

•

It says "digital economic landscape", so not just games and microtransactions, but having a distribution platform vendor-lock you in, not actually owning pieces of media you purchased on that platform and in a broader sense even art as a commodity

YeetPics

•

Not to mention the infinite supply of awesome indie games I have access to at the click of my mouse..

cordlesslamp

•

Also all the live-service cash-grab high budget AAA keep failing one after another.

CitizenKong

•

I think it's a little odd the article omits the fact that Yanis Varoufakis was also the Greek minister of finance for quite a while.

Cyberflunk

•

Hellscape? I guess my reality didnt get that memo.

Unless this is just about TF2. I don't know shit about tf.

jqubed

•

More broadly about companies not producing things but extracting “rent” from others by controlling a marketplace all others have to go through. The former economist in residence is promoting a new book he wrote, which I suppose I would have to read to fully understand his argument. The little bit I read in the article has not exactly convinced me, but more from the part that other companies he mentions like Apple and Amazon also produce products.

AnarchistArtificer

•

I've read the book and I found it okay, but I read it not long after Shoshana Zuboff's Surveillance Capitalism, which I think tried to explain many of the same things that Technofeudalism does, but I feel Zuboff's take feels more fitting (though the two models aren't necessarily mutually exclusive)

Eggyhead

•

I’m more inclined to blame Microsoft for innovating subscriptions for online multiplayer & MTXs on consoles. As well as advertising on dashboards and everywhere else.