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Singer sues hospital, says staff thought he was mentally ill and wasn't member of Four Tops

https://apnews.com/article/four-tops-singer-hospital-discrimination-46e94b0f63ad3b4291e72a087c6d2c05

The lead singer of the Four Tops says a Detroit-area hospital restrained him and ordered a psychological exam after refusing to believe that he was part of the Motown music group.

Singer sues hospital, says staff thought he was mentally ill and wasn't member of Four Tops

The lead singer of the Four Tops said a Detroit-area hospital restrained him and ordered a psychological exam after refusing to believe that he was part of the Motown music group.

Alexander Morris, who is Black, filed a lawsuit Monday against Ascension Macomb-Oakland Hospital in Warren, alleging racial discrimination and other misconduct during an April 2023 visit for chest pain and breathing problems.

Hospital staff “wrongfully assumed he was mentally ill when he revealed his identity as a celebrity figure,” the lawsuit says.

Morris is not an original member, but he joined the group in 2019.

The lawsuit says a nurse finally believed Morris was in the Four Tops and the psychological exam was canceled.

The hospital offered a $25 gift card as an apology, but Morris refused to accept it, the lawsuit says.

93 comments

FiremanEdsRevenge

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The hospital offered a $25 gift card as an apology

The cherry on top.

disguy_ovahea

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That’s such an insulting concession. I bet it’s only good for use in the hospital gift shop or cafeteria.

quicklime

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Good for $25 off any elective procedure costing twenty thousand dollars or more!

Snowclone

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Expired last week!!

some_guy

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It's true use is to use as a legal argument that you accepted restitution. Luckily, he wisely declined or his suit might have been dismissed on grounds that they'd made it right already.

foggy

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The thing about suing for damages, which is what I assume hell sue for, is that your payout is based on their value. And hospitals are "worth nothing" on paper. In the US.

So... He should probably take it.

I mean I'm kidding, he can probably afford a good lawyer and get something done here. But, you or me? Take that shit.

cygnus

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The funniest part of this story is learning that American hospitals have gift cards. What a joke of a healthcare system.

chalupapocalypse

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"Sir, we have a situation."

"Open the gift card safe."

SupraMario

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"should we give him a $100 card?" "No no, that's to much, he didn't lose a limb or an organ, the $25 card should be just fine"

suction

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Madam? Madam, I need you to do 1 thing: Please drive to hospital and buy $1500 worth of gift cards, so we can make sure all the bad virus from your computer is cleaned, madam.

CaptPretentious

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Ya know, I hadn't even thought of that until I read your comment. Because there's gift cards for damn near everything. But a 'gift card' for a hospital... That is weird.

FlyingSquid

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The worst part is a $25 gift card wouldn't even cover a lot of people's co-pays.

Drusas

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I can only imagine the gift card is meant to be used for things like the cafeteria and perhaps the gift shop.

Someonelol

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It won't even cover a band-aid with these vultures.

meco03211

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Yeah. They really gotta get on those punch cards. 10 surgeries and the next one is free.

PlantJam

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With a maximum out of pocket, the second surgery in a year is usually free. The hard part is paying off the first one.

corsicanguppy

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What a scam. Show me 10 surgeries on a person still alive. I worry that's reeeeally rare.

holomorphic

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Probably every single person with knee problems.

Dejathehairwizard

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So when my doctor's office screwed up and made my appointments run hours late, they have given me local gas station gift cards ($10) so weird, but I didn't say no.

cadekat

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Why would the gift card be for the hospital? Could have been a prepaid credit card just as easily.

Blackmist

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And what the fuck is $25 going to buy you? I've seen their bills. You wouldn't even get a Hello Kitty sticky plaster for that.

SeaJ

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They were going to put him in a mental hospital and the best they can do to say sorry is a $25 gift card...

AmidFuror

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They ordered an exam, but they cancelled it before it was given.

Their defense could be to describe what behavior the singer had besides stating he was one of the Four Tops that might give them concern about his mental health.

They cancelled the exam after figuring out that he actually was, so presumably it was a significant part of the decision.

restingboredface

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I wouldn't be surprised if they charged him a cancelation fee.

MutilationWave

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They cancelled the exam after he had three seizures.

littlewonder

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That feels like a $1 inheritance. Was the hospital trying to get the worst PR angle possible?

Khanzarate

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It is.

If he accepted it, he'd no longer have an argument with a strong foundation. He could still sue, but a lawyer could argue they already made it right.

Exactly the same logic as a 1$ inheritance, it shows that this was dealt with, so the law doesnt have to deal with it again.

girlfreddy

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The hospital offered a $25 gift card as an apology, but Morris refused to accept it, the lawsuit says.

Khanzarate

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Right. If he had, he'd have been screwed by the hospital later, which is why he didn't.

Aurenkin

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Americans may pay significantly more for healthcare, but at least the quality of care is terrible.

m13

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Anything else would be Communism, which is bad for some reason.

Kolanaki

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They heard the term "better dead than red" and then realized that they were red inside.

BackOnMyBS

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I argued like a couple having a fight with a psychiatrist about me being autistic when I was hospitalized once. We had a literal antagonized fight over me being autistic in front of two other doctors. She raised her voice at and wouldn't believe me even though I told her I had been diagnosed by a psychologist that administered the ADOS, have seen said psychologist for months, my friends that are psychologists are confident I'm autistic, and that I was in special ed classes since 4th grade. I was seeking absolutely nothing related to it; I just happened to mention it in passing when I said I didn't like sleeping at the hospital and missed my bed.

Warning: sarcastic vent session

::: spoiler Tap for spoiler This became the psychiatrist's last stand against Big Autism. She wasn't going to let a patient undermine her absolute authority by them giving her information that she needed to have a thorough understanding of the case. Who do I think I am to know and have an opinion about my entire life and well-being?? As soon as I got home, I threw her prescription in the trash.

I worry about all the other vulnerable patients that she treats and dont have the mental strength to stand up to her, just getting drugged up for whatever would validate her need for control over others.

Bonus: When I was receiving the discharge brief, she raised her voice at and put down a nurse that asked a question about my discharge instructions. Everyone's faces in the room were straight blank like this 😐. I guess they were used to her abuse. :::

jordanlund

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That's someone who needs to be brought before the state medical board. I hope you filed a complaint!

Snowclone

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I had a ER guy fight me on me knowing what kidneys are, and if I'm having kidney pain or not. I have really bad memory loss so I was all kinds of flustered, eventually I remember that I didn't diagnose myself, a doctor did! A doctor told me it was kidney pain. That fucking weasel wouldn't listen to me for anything. Then he eventually agreed after seeing xrays, sent me to a kidney specialist, and she looked at both doctors diagnosis and said ''these guys are idiots.... see the L the xray tech typed in next to your kidney with the dark spot, yeah that's the Left kidney, your pain is behind your right kidney, The left has never hurt, correct?'' She was correct. Turns out I had referred pain from a spinal issue. She figured it out because I was sitting weird, and she was like, why do you sit like that? ''Oh, the pain goes away when I sit like this, but it comes back when I stand up''. ''yeah that's a spinal issue, kidney pain doesn't present that way at all.'' So basically, some doctors suck at bedside manner AND being a doctor.

sparkle

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A large portion of medical practicioners are absolutely fucking insane. It's no wonder people have a massive distrust of healthcare. How is it possible that medical research and medical practice have such vastly different kinds of people in them?

It's scary when you realize that a medical degree is just a degree like any other, and that a lot of those people went through college the same way as any other person, probably not paying attention 90% of the time, and cheating on most of their assignments... your likelihood of having a dysfunctional doctor is about the same as your likelihood of having a dysfunctional tech support specialist.

girlfreddy

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Tbh I've had more issues with male physicians than female (a couple with female, dozens with male), ie: pulled my ACL off the bone at work but was told that women don't hurt themselves badly, so all ok. Took them 6 months to give me a scope and clean the mess in my knee, then another 2 months before I got the ACL replaced (by an utter fucking idiot who put it in the wrong position).

It failed 14 months later (same job), took 8 months to get an MRI, & waited 16 months for a second replacement.

Took seeing multiple different physicians (all male) and 20 yrs before they finally MRI'd my torn rotator cuff (same job) and it finally got fixed 2 years ago ... when I was in my early-mid 60s.

3 years ago a newish-to-me gyno didn't bother doing an ultrasound and found out mid-surgery (for uterine polyps) that my uterus is tipped completely upside down towards my tailbone. I had 4 nurses holding my hands trying to talk me through that pain, and when it was done and I was walking down the hallway, the gyno was running after me apologizing.

Every time it was a male Dr. whose arrogance trumped patient care.

Every. Fucking. Time.

fmstrat

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It's never too late to file a complaint. I'm sorry you went through that, but please help others that come after you.

MindTraveller

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I fucking hate psychiatrists. I've seen plenty and never met a good one.

The problem with them is that they're not educated on the subject they're supposed to act as experts on. A psychologist is a scientist who becomes a medical professional. But a psychiatrist is a general practitioner who becomes a brain professional. They're not qualified and they don't know what they're talking about. A psychologist knows about the stages of development, the mechanisms of trauma, the structure of the brain, etc. A psychiatrist knows how to prescribe antibiotics and start an IV. It's not a transferable skillset! They are given very little actually relevant education, and they are never taught how to use the scientific method. Every brain is different and understanding a patient's mind is always a scientific problem. You don't learn how to do that in medical school.

Katrisia

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I disagree. Generally speaking, psychologists aren't competent either. Psychiatrists at least know about the human body, its interactions, and psychopathology in depth. Psychologists study the things you mentioned, but many fail to study the biological parts and how deep psychopathologies can go.

Therefore, I've encountered many psychologists who think that all problems are caused by the environment, by inner (often cognitive) processes, etc. They fail to understand severe mental disorders such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, and regularly make one of two mistakes (if not both in different contexts): downplay the severity of psychosis and mania/hypomania or think the mildest symptom is psychosis or mania/hypomania.

Also, many psychologists I've known and seen lean into the antipsychiatry movement. This may not be a problem when treating, say, mild to moderate depressions of a certain reactive nature. They might advise not to take medication and, indeed, medication may not be necessary for these cases. But to do the same for endogenous recurrent depressions and, again, severe mental disorders is borderline clinical negligence.

Finally and in the same vein, many psychologists do not understand how dependent on the physiological are phenomena such as behavior and beliefs. They often picture our mental experience as mostly free, perhaps influenced by many factors (e.g., psychoanalysis), yet ultimately driven by ourselves. I disagree. I disagree not only because there are many scientific observations to the contrary, but because my own experience has been ever-changing by the silliest of things, like medication for physical illnesses, food, weather conditions, etc. Anecdote incoming: >!Traits that psychologists would try to explain away, treat in talk therapy, and solidify as part of my personality were mere consequences of the physiological and went away immediately after I stopped the causes. The average psychiatrist would find this obvious, while psychologists were often surprised.!<

If I may add, both psychiatrists and psychologists face a profound ignorance about the things they study. Psychology has tried to explain them, and in this effort it has created dozens of different and incompatible schools of thought (e.g., psychoanalysis, behaviorism, cognitivism, etc.). Psychiatrists are also at a loss in the definitive hows, and I should add there's also dense theory behind it (it did not stop with Emil Kraeplin or Karl Jaspers). If you ask me, I wouldn't consider one more scientific than the other just because one created more paradigms/theories; if anything, remaining observant and pragmatic sounds to me more scientific (in both disciplines), but that's a whole new conversation...

Snowclone

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This is starting to make a lot of sense to me now.

HarriPotero

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Something similar happened to this Finnish chainsaw juggler. He had just come back from performing at Kim Jong-Un's birthday and had a stubborn headache that wouldn't go away. Straight to the mental ward.

Article in Finnish, I'm sure Google translate does a decent job.

SkyezOpen

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I... I'm not gonna hold this one against them.

HarriPotero

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I feel like googling his name would have sorted it all out.

SkunkWorkz

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I mean he did go to North Korea to please that dictator. Must have at least a little bit of brain damage.

themeatbridge

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Jesus that's a terrifying story.

FlyingSquid

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When asked why he is suing the hospital, Morris replied, "Can't Help Myself."

sangriaferret

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Hospital staff said, "see you in court." Morris responded, "Reach out. I'll be there."

BonesOfTheMoon

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So nobody looks at him and says hey let me just Google this guy.

grue

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I just checked the Four Tops Wikipedia article, and the line that lists him as a current member of the group has a citation referencing a NY Times article from today about the same hospital incident/lawsuit filing, LOL.

Potatos_are_not_friends

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Maybe they did and Google's Shitty AI gave them the wrong answer.

fmstrat

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It's possible this occurred and their responses are part of the case.

homesweethomeMrL

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I saw the four tops a long time ago, but just for the record, they killed. It was outdoors and it started raining and instead of leaving, everybody was dancing. It was impressive.

AshMan85

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So wrong on so many levels

LemmyKnowsBest

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lolcatnip

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Everyone knows celebrities aren't real, so anybody claiming to be one must be delusional.

corsicanguppy

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Can confirm. You see the guy firing people from Celebrity Apprentice? Deluded as hell.

MindTraveller

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Name a more iconic duo than realists and being wrong about reality

MelonYellow

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Yikes! But I could totally see this scenario happening lol. Maybe he came off agitated, manicky (he's in the hospital, maybe he's panicking or upset or whatever). Then he says he's famous too so the doctor was like oh ok, grandiose delusional. Check, check, and check. Assuming he doesn't already have a psych history, I don't see how they would've came to the mental illness conclusion if he was simply calmly saying who he was lol I mean that would've been really stupid

SnotFlickerman

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Then he says he’s famous too so the doctor was like oh ok, grandiose delusional.

I'm more convinced that they had no fucking clue who the Four Tops even were. It's 2024 and this guy is all "you don't know who I am!" and they're like "you're too fucking right we don't" because what fucking nurse just out of medical school is listening to or even knows of the existence of the fucking Four Tops.

They probably thought he was just spouting geriatric fucking nonsense.

"I don't know, something about four tops? He's only wearing one top, no undershirt."

MelonYellow

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Oh yep, you're right about the dementia angle. And even if they were Four Tops fan... you just joined in 2019! Who's gonna know??

girlfreddy

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Maybe the hospital could have had someone google his name first before they went all stupid on him.

That would be the logical thing to do, right? Right???

CoggyMcFee

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Who's gonna know??

The object in everyone’s pocket that could tell them in seconds probably

MindTraveller

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Wait wait wait you want people to actually use the sum total of human knowledge they have in their pocket? What a nerd!

AeonFelis

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https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/03/the-case-of-the-famous-physicist/

Blackmist

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I wonder how many crazy people they've had that also claimed to be a member of the Four Tops for this to happen.

"I used to be one of the Four Tops!"

"Sure you did Peter, now let's get these sleeves tied nice and tight..."

MichaelTen

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SnotFlickerman

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Now do all of Metallica's bassists since Cliff Burton.

Now that my throwaway joke is out of the way, it's interesting to me how much judgment and hate there is for those with mental health issues that people are positively angry that they might be confused for someone with (or maybe even actually have) mental health issues.

Devil's Advocate incoming:

Let's be real, the members of the Four Tops are fucking old. It could literally be fucking dementia. This guy could genuinely have mental health problems.

Why is he so scared of being admitted to a mental health facility? Because deep down everyone knows exactly how fucked up those facilities are and exactly how much agency they take away from you when you're in one.

The reason the fear of getting put in one is so visceral is because everyone knows it becomes really difficult to get back out when you're in an endless quest to prove your own sanity and everyone thinks you're insane (and maybe you really are!). The reality is that the systems and how we handle mental illness need to change as well as the judgments of the people who need help. Like, maybe taking away all their personal agency isn't the answer.

People won't seek out help if the response is to sue over the very idea that maybe we might actually need help. He's fucking ancient, he very well could be experiencing dementia, and that could have been an honest fucking mistake on the part of the hospital staff because he's literally an old man exhibiting dementia symptoms but because of who he is instead we're running with the story that his mind is a steel trap and never wavers? Fuck me, get out of here with that nonsense. Old people get old and their minds get frail, its totally fucking possible. (I can't find his exact age, but his personal Facebook shows he's got a full head of gray hair and miles of wrinkles. Black don't crack so this guy is fucking old.)

No, it would be way healthier if people could be open to the possibility (especially in advanced old age!) that maybe, just maybe, they could be susceptible to mental health issues instead of freaking out and fucking suing people.

Two things can be true at once: He can be a member of the Four Tops and he also could have been exhibiting dementia symptoms in front of mental health professionals.

girlfreddy

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He's fucking ancient

No, he's not. He was born in 1971 making him 52 or 53 now (depending on his birthdate).

He joined the Four Tops in 2019.

jordanlund

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That was probably the core of the problem right there... Medical professionals going "No way is this guy old enough to be in the Four Tops..." Without doing the due dilligence to realize they've been rotating members since 1997.

The fact that the original four members ran from 1953 to 1997 is fucking amazing! One of the original four is STILL in the group at 88.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Fakir

SnotFlickerman

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https://www.bcbs.com/the-health-of-america/reports/early-onset-dementia-alzheimers-disease-affecting-younger-american-adults

My post is literally addressing the "it can't happen to me" canard. People can and really do have mental health issues. It can literally happen to anyone. I understand he joined in 2019, I've been to his Facebook page. I appreciate you adding his birth year, because I was unable to find it.

I'm pointing out that angry responses to the idea that maybe you have a mental health issue speaks to how bad our current mental health services are, why they need change, and why we need to get rid of the stigma against mental illness.

Anyway, as you can see, Early Onset Dementia (along with so many other diseases, especially autoimmune) is on the rise in youth. Pretending it's not a possibility at all and getting angry at the possibility because you view people with mental health issues as "lesser" somehow is a problem, because it can happen to anyone. Pretending it won't and trying to strongman your way out of mental health issues literally does not work.

Also, as a black man, he historically has a reason to distrust American medical and pharmaceutical industries. I'm sure he's likely aware of such gross examples as the Tuskegee Syphilis experiments. However, choosing not to trust medical science entirely is also a losing game, so we have to fix that trust in people by building better systems.

Once again, this speaks to a system that needs to be fixed, not one that needs to have people antagonizing others over the idea that maybe they need mental health help. The system for mental health help in the USA is currently broken and hurts people and takes away their human agency. It can help a lot of people, but it hurts and fails a lot of others. There's a reason why people are scared of it.

I'm not saying anything is wrong with him, but I am saying his angry response to the idea that something might be speaks volumes about the issue.

ImADifferentBird

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"He's fucking ancient, so he probably has dementia."

"No, he's actually middle-aged."

"Ah, well, nevertheless..."

Not disputing what you're saying about the horrors of the mental health system in this country, but learn to take the L.

ColeSloth

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He'll have a hard time gaslighting if he doesn't edit his post before doing it. Lol.

Maybe he has dementia?

Rekorse

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I dont think their point changed from post-to-post, it seemed coherent to me. What do you mean by gaslighting here?

ColeSloth

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His initial argument was that the guy now suing was old as dirt, so it was understanding that they thought he may have dementia or a mental issue.

But he never bothered to read the article when he made that huge post. The patient wasn't an original member. He joined in 2019 and was only like 52 years old.

At that point, in his next post, he started acting like that wasn't his big argument.

Rekorse

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In my opinion, that wasnt the point they were making, but everyone's open to their own interpretation I suppose.

MindTraveller

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Accusing people who disagree with you of mental illness is fucked, and that's what these doctors did. False beliefs, or beliefs the doctors think are false, aren't a mental illness. Had an actual psychologist been in the room, they would have explained that a mental illness necessarily causes harm or distress to the patient. If someone believes he's a famous singer, and there's no other sign of trouble, then doctors have no business with the man except to solve the problem he came to have treated.

ColeSloth

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That's an awful lot of talk for someone who didn't seem to read/comprehend the article.

"Morris is not an original member, but he joined the group in 2019."

njm1314

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palordrolap

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The Tops of Theseus.

GlassHalfHopeful

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I agree that this article is short on information. It's hard to get a read on what happened. I mean, it's not uncommon to order psych evals in various circumstances. I don't know what to think based simply on this article. With one exception--a $25 gift certificate?! WTF!?

DragonTypeWyvern

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They were trying to trick him into accepting an offer of compensation so they'd be able to point to it in court when they get sued.

originalucifer

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my grandfathers 4 tops. sure theyve replaced members over the years...

JoeyHarrington

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You sound like you need a psychological exam. Please step into my padded office

LemmyKnowsBest

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Ooh that's my kink. May I have a moment in your padded office too?

JoeyHarrington

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You get a $25 gift card to Joe's Discount Espresso stand

TychoQuad

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I wasn’t there, so I don’t know how this went down, but the only reason why I can see this being brought up, is he went

“Don’t you know who I am?!? I’m Alexander Morris of the Four Tops! You better give me priority over these other non -famous shlubs or you’ll be known as the hospital who killed a Four Top!”

As someone who works in customer service, this scenario sounds totally plausible, and would explain why they would schedule a psychological exam.

Atelopus-zeteki

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Speculators will speculate. It's just too easy these days to simply look up the guy, see a pic, and determine truth or falsehood of his claims. This should never have even come to our attention, if the staff at the hospital was sharp.

Rekorse

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Its also possible that they did look him up but he was acting so outrageous he was still hard to believe or they still felt that he was having a mental breakdown.

The guy can be a member of the four tops and also have mental problems at a given time.

Why are we assuming either way?

The only poster I saw refuse to take one of the positions, and instead talk about mental health and medical care in general, got down voted but all of these posts where people immediately and aggressively pick a side are all up votes.

lemmylommy

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Could be. Could also be that they made some smalltalk and someone asked what he was doing for a living …

MelonYellow

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Just realized he got restrained. You're not gonna get restrained just for a psych exam. He was definitely doing something - getting hostile, threatening the staff maybe. It depends on the documentation and these hospitals know how to protect themselves. Use of restraints REQUIRES justification; it's drilled into all the staff. He's got no shot

Aradina

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Bullshit lol. You get restrained for talking back in any way.

Rekorse

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I mean you can't say that without at least providing your own anecdote.

I know american hospitals suck but they do not restrain everyone who objects to anything.