https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/06/ev-sales-slowdown-is-mostly-a-tesla-problem-according-to-sales-data/
Almost every other automaker is seeing double-digit EV sales growth.
Who knew pissing off leftist people by being a douchebag when your company sells electric vehicles that are typically championed by said leftists could hurt your sales? So mysterious.
Yep. I was unironically going to buy a Cybertruck… then Elon came out of the fascist closet while Tesla’s QC/CS problems escalated… now there is no way I will ever touch anything Tesla or related to Musk.
Waiting for Aptera now, but would also consider Rivian in a pinch.
Most of its issues were fixed by vin 3000 or so (out of about 9000 total). It was 90% brilliant, but the last few details and forced design changes just killed it.
You know, I think that Musk wanted Cybertrucks to be bulletproof for the same reason I don't worry about mine being bulletproof:
If you're not a huge piece of shit, people won't be taking potshots at you.
Oh that's nothing.
They dodged death.
https://jalopnik.com/watch-the-tesla-cybertrucks-laggy-steer-by-wire-system-1851517502
I thought all drive-by-wire was illegal because of the lag. 1/8s does seem very possible to make a difference between life and death.
The article listed another car with 0.28s lag as responding faster. Do you know if that's a typo or is my brain not working?
Thank you for sharing this. I don't want a car with that much lag on the controls. It sounds like it isn't just Tesla, it is something you need to check on any model EV.
I’ve seen a few Cybertrucks parked around the city now. They literally look like something either the fascist, militant law enforcement or the Uber-wealthy would drive around in, in a dystopian future.
Definitely designed to keep you safe from the violent peasant class, especially should you need to run over a few of them in the process.
For what it's worth, I love my R1T. The build quality is miles ahead of the Teslas I've driven.
I just wish it weren't such a sad-Pokemon homely looking little thing, especially from the front. Definitely better than the Cybertruck, though.
I've been watching the Aptera progress for years. I hope they can get to a saleable product. So efficient!
Hah! This is 100% me. I was so quick to reserve a Cybertruck that I accidentally had three reservations for a few days.
And I’ve been following Aptera since 2007. I really really hope they can pull it off this time.
They announced a month or two ago that they are now fully funded and it’s finally open road to full production!
Fair question. The answer is timing.
I was a huge fan of Aptera the first time around, in the mid 2000s. I was crushed to see them fold simply because the government yanked funding for any vehicles that didn’t have 4 wheels (funding that Tesla did get, which is why they survived).
The Cybertruck was announced in 2019, while I heard about Aptera’s resurrection only in late 2021. Until recently, Aptera’s second attempt was looking really tenuous, too. The only just secured full funding to enter full scale production.
Basically, I like practicality. When it was announced, Cybertruck sounded like it would be very practical… rough, tough, indestructible, and electric. We know better now.
Aptera is a very different kind of practical, sure… but for a car I’d use for light commuting a couple times per week (in SoCal), there’s a chance I may never even need to plug it in. That beats out any and all other considerations, in my book.
now there is no way I will ever touch anything Tesla or related to Musk.
Just like his ex-wives.
Waiting for Aptera now, but would also consider Rivian in a pinch.
The Two EV Genders
I'm happy enough with my Chevy Volt. Would love a fifth gen NEV hybrid, but it seems like they've just given up making them.
I can't afford an EV, but if I was in the market for one, my search would start with something like "anything but Tesla".
Can't imagine why they're struggling, lol.
The Venn diagram of "people that like Elon musk and want to support him with their money" and "people that consider buying an electric car for environmental reasons" is having very little overlap in recent years
Used EV prices have come down quite a bit. There's a solar EV startup called Aptera that's making a super efficient EV that the base model will sell for around $26k before tax incentives, so a new one could theoretically, potentially be under $20k.
They seem to be getting close. I think they have all the funding they need now, they're planning to start production around the end of the year. I think they're starting to make their first production-intent parts and are validating performance, hopefully soon we'll see some crash test results. My biggest concern at the moment is what happens when you hit a pothole at 70+ mph since the motors are in the wheels
They are already certified road-worthy for Canada. So they have passed all their safety requirements for Canada. This would indicate they could also pass US road-worthiness testing too. But the cost would be too much for them at this point in time. If they catch on, it should take little beyond paying for the certifications to sell in the US.
The renders on their website look insane. Hyper efficient sure, let's see how well it does in a rollover.
Canada has already certified Edison trucks to be road-worthy. They just need to start building them now.
There's also Edison Motors that are taking preorders for Diesel/EV hybrids for pickup trucks. They're pro Right to Repair and the hybrids will be Plugin type, so for short trips, should be pure EV. If you want a pure EV truck the whole way, you should be able to remove the engine and put more batteries in, but they want to have as few of options for the preorder to simplify things. Converting an old square body truck in way more useful and cheaper then buying a Cybertruck.
Edison Motors, while a great idea, is aimed at the heavy duty and off-road commercial space. Even they admit that their semi doesn't really make sense for over the road trucks. There is little to no gain in it. Same with work pickups. But for some, think heavy duty off road repair vehicles, it can make sense.
I'm pulling for them though. I hope they make it big if for no other reason than to push the right to repair with common parts be the norm again.
The pickup truck conversion is what I was focused on. I personally have a use case for those and I simply can't see a use case for the Cybertruck.
My understanding is that the kit is for straight axle designs only, and the cost is, (depending on installation), can be over $40,000US. But if you have use case have at it.
The only people who have a real use for the Cyber truck are car collectors. They will end up as valuable collector pieces some day and nothing else.
We'll see how much the Edison Motors kits costs, but they have promised to cost a fraction of a new truck.
real use for the Cyber truck are car collectors.
Car collectors know how to keep their collection from rusting. Delorean could also rust, but the owners had instructions on how to clean it.
I have no idea what your budget is, so don't take this as me shoving this in your face.
A used Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt can be around 10k depending on which year you're looking at. I have a Leaf and I love it.
For those of you coming in to say that ChadEMO sucks, it does. But Nissan recently publicly recognized the need for an adapter to CCS. So hopefully they start making those.
You made me look it up, the newest vehicle they offer is the Cybertruck, but that design was revealed in 2019, the same year that the previous newest model of SUV started shipping, the Model Y. Their entire line is almost 6 years old, that is ancient in fancy car design time. By now people no longer want EV cars that look like electric cars, they just want them to look like cars. Ever since BYD, Nissan, and the other manufacturers started to offer EVs that are indistinguishable from petrol cars—design wise—Teslas have definitely looked outdated. No wonder no one is interested in driving an Apple Magic mouse.
The 3 was refreshed earlier in the year and the Y has it's refresh incoming. They also update the cars all the time just not always stylistically. There's not an "all new for 20xx" launch or the like that you get from others. The X and S now compared to say the 2016 are markedly different.
Also Nissan had the leef about 10 years ago so they're not a new entrant and only have currently two products and I wouldn't say they're indistinguishable. Also I wouldn't say that about the Seal, it's clearly an EV and BYD is unashamed about that.
The existing OEMs need to get their act together. If you thought Tesla was hurting them, wait until BYD, NIO and Geely turn up in numbers.
I can't count on my fingers the number of automobile manufacturers that have sprung out of thin air in the last few years offering some variation of EV. Two of those you mentioned I had an easier time finding information about their stock than I did finding a picture of their car on the road. Not a good sign for a company that purportedly sells cars. It's a great sign for a company that just sells stock though.
Search for them in Chinese or China content if you can, those cars and brands are on the roads here in China in high numbers.
To add to the other commenter that's already replied. Those three names, whether you know them or not, are very big in China and th Asian Pacific. They're making entrance into the middle east and eastern Europe along with lucrative markets like Norway. Make no mistake, they are expanding out from china rapidly. BYD is the best example I have to hand, 12 show rooms in the UK in 2023 with an aim for approx 70 by the end off 2024.
Look at the Wikipedia pages on those three brands for more info, they're not small companies alone new ones, just relatively new to EVs. But given the date of Ford and Stellantis and the other OEMs, I don't think existing for a while os a good yardstick to go by. Hell, look at the absolute shit show of Toyota in this arena l.
Anecdotally, I didn't even realize they made electric Blazers until one charged next to me at the fast charger.
EV sale are slumping more because of cost to buy than anything else. The great unwashed masses, like you and me, simply can't afford to make the purchase. Even used EVs are more expensive a use ICE vehicle.
GM had it right with the Bolt. An EV with good range, 260 miles or so, and a far more affordable entry price for us commoners to swallow. It just died because the battery manufacturer screwed it up. But there is hope the Bolt comes back with GMs new Ultium battery that is supposed to be cheaper and better. They know it can be done and they can do it. And BYD could sell a lot of EVs in the same price range as a base level Bolt very easily.
I'm sure Musk knows Tesla's days are numbered. The large manufacturers are now in the process of pivoting and they will eat Tesla alive. This is why he's trying to get that big payout from the Tesla Board of Directors and has now also been caught in alleged insider trading. He's going to suck all the cash out of Tesla he can before running clear of the collapse.
It just died because the battery manufacturer screwed it up
That's debatable. They are bringing it back, and it will have the newer Ultium battery, but whether the battery recall is what did it is hard to say. They did run another model year after that happened, though I would've expected a little more after the refresh from the 2022MY.
On the other hand, the Bolt platform was released in 2016. A lot has changed since then, particularly with charging. 55kW is laughable compared to pretty much everything else on the market these days, and they may need to go back to the drawing board to update it.
Outsourced parts are almost always the fault of the supplier - and I have experience with being a tier 2 or 3 supplier.
I sure there will be a design refresh before the Bolt comes back. Yeah, 55kw charging is not all that fast anymore. But to keep costs down to entry level affordability, like less than $35,000US, corners will need to be cut and cheap tailing edge tech will probably need to be used. Otherwise, all you've done is price the largest body of buyers, (lower middle class these days), right out of the market again.
And the EV market needs those low priced cars to achieve common market penetration. If they don't design and build to that affordability price points, then EVs will simply remain toys for the wealthy.
The point about price sums it up perfectly. I have a german car from 2009, it's really solid, fun to drive, technologically exactly where I want it to be and - perhaps most importantly of all - it does not fucking spy on me.
You can get the spy part with any newer vehicle. My 2015 Jeep Patriot and Dodge Ram pickup can both be hacked to the point of the driver no longer having control of the vehicle. It's been proven and actually done. Maybe your German car is old enough, maybe it isn't. But the spying is everywhere now.
It's not so much hackers I'm afraid of, but rather the invasive spying done by modern cars. Mine is old enough to not have any of that, but new enough to have all the things I do want to have.
They can do it now as it is. Even ICE vehicles can track your acceleration, braking, speed, and even lane weaving, (and yes it can/could affect your insurance rates). There are a few that do so now. They have 'Black boxes' like airplanes that can have data accessed in real time if it's wanted. The tech is simple and cheap and it's been around for a while.
I'm definitely interested in the Equinox and Bolt. I do wish GM didn't lock people into their shitty infotainment platform though. I also wish they had a NACS charger instead.
I would never consider a Tesla.
Agreed, especially with a globalized supply chain. However, Hyundai/Kia had their violations right here in the US of A. Unionized companies (like GM) also tend to have much fewer labor violations since workers will shut production down. In the case of Hyundai/Kia, they simply blame it on the contractor and call it a day. Nevermind that it is Hyundai's job to vet contractors and it's not as if the kids were hidden away so that Hyundai managers couldn't see. This is the same company that thought it would be a good idea to save a buck and not install immobilizers in their vehicles (only company to not do that) which has led to rampant theft.
I just wish GM and Ford were not run by a gaggle of dipshits constantly looking to push high margin items. The Bolt and the Equinox are proof that they do not need to.
I got a Kia hybrid because no EV incentives in my state to make up the $10k difference. 500 miles per tank (10g) and is very nice.
I got a 2023 Bolt earlier this year. I just connect my phone wirelessly for maps and music and don't touch most other things on the screen. I LOVE the heated steering wheel for winter and cooling seats for summer. That particular package is well worth getting.
Definitely DO NOT give OnStar your credit card info though. The dealership will sit you in the car and initiate the OnStar call before you know what's happening. Just refuse to give credit card info, the extended trial whatever isn't worth the hassle of OnStar charging you when they said they wouldn't. I ended up having to do a chargeback because OnStar straight up lied to me about when charges would occur.
Take a look at the Ford Mustang Mach-e too. Despite the Mustang name, it’s closer to a wagon or small SUV. I just got one and love it so far.
Always confused me that the execs thought slapping the Mustang name on an EV wagon was a good choice. More proof that Ford is run by dipshits. While it looks good, the range and charging speed are not that great and it is quite a bit more expensive than the Equinox.
Glad you are happy with it though.
I mainly mentioned it in response to your complaints about the Equinox’s entertainment system. You’re right about range and charging speed, but it sure feels good to drive!
The bolts look good. That's what I'll replace my truck with when the time comes. I don't mind replacing the head unit because I used to do it in every vehicle I had until the latest one. I just have to see how it's tied together and hope they didn't do something stupid like tying it to a critical system.
The 2023 Bolt has Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. Once they switch over to the Optium platform (next year I think), they will be using the Optium infotainment system. That has had some notable issues like rebooting in the middle of driving to apply an update which means you don't get to see things like how fast you are going for a minute or two. They had to recall the Blazer EV because failed updates caused the car to become a brick. Like the car became inoperable. That really makes me wonder if they are scraping the bottom of the barrel for software developers since version rollback is pretty fucking standard for most software these days.
You do get 8 years free of their infotainment package. Not sure what all that includes though nor how much the subscription is after the 8 years is up.
I still have use for my truck for the next few years (hauling stuff a couple of times a week) so I'm hoping that it's a well documented replacement by the time I'm ready to get one.
The EV bubble is well behind us. People are looking for cheap reliable EVs that meet their daily needs. Very few can afford a new Rivian or Tesla, and even fewer now are willing to take out loans to finance one. More fancy EV companies will go bankrupt and dissolve unless they change their priorities.
Companies like GM, Ford, and Stellantis are going to start producing more utilitarian EVs. Meanwhile BYD is doing well, why? Because they build utilitarian barebones cheap EVs that get the job done.
It's almost like for the majority of people a car is a tool and not a personality substitute, despite what car maker's CEOs would like to believe.
When I was younger, I loved exotic sports cars and wanted something like a Porsche, though realistically expected to get something a bit cheaper but still fun like a WRX, Miata, or an S2000.
Now that I can afford something like that (well, assuming I'm willing to give up a lot of disposable income for it), I don't really care as much. I can drive cool cars in Gran Turismo or maybe I'll rent a supercar one day for a short time just to feel the acceleration for real.
But between climate change and the shitty direction car design is going in these days, even those moments that I get weak and think about how a new car would be nice don't last very long.
What I want is a basic EV with just battery, motors, heater, AC, power windows, power locks (that require a button press), and a sound system would be nice. I'd maybe go for smart cruise control and reverse cam. I'd prefer an analog speedometer that overrepresents my speed by like 5km/h but could live with an accurate digital one (or let me add an offset). Cloth seats (not even sure why leather is so popular, cloth is comfortable in pretty much any temperature, leather gets cold or hot), sedan (or hatchback body with a frunk), spare tire, jack, and wrench (though I could maybe be upsold on tires that don't ever need surprise changing, if such a thing exists in the consumer space). I don't need it anymore, but car seat mount spots because they are trivial to add to a design. If it gets updates through the internet, make it via a phone app that does the downloading and then through USB because the car itself has no wireless connectivity other than AM/FM radio (and maybe Bluetooth, I'm neutral on that one). Another big thing I'd care about is how the drivetrain is set up (ie, how many motors and how are they usually engaged), because I'd want something capable of fast acceleration when needed but also efficient for general driving. I like having decent power still when driving around the speed limit so that I know I can pass quickly at that rate. Windows, wipers, mirrors... I think that about covers the main things I care about in a car these days. Oh also make the body aerodynamic and not stupid looking, and design it to be easy to do maintenance work.
My EV is a bike lol, I can't afford anything but an old manual ICE Subaru when it comes to cars and most of the time I still ride a bicycle or an ebike.