The Acolyte discussion and review megathread
Discuss and review here!
The Jedi are SO competent with the force. Some memorable points (spoilers ofc):
- The masters’ restraint in never igniting their lightsabers unless lethality is absolutely necessary, relying on the force as their primary defence.
- The contrast between Yord’s anxious rule-focussed approach and Sol’s force-led approach.
- Torbin’s impenetrable force aura whilst meditating - for over 10 years!!
- Sol’s ability to restrain Mae in-place whilst using the force to figure out what she knows
- Every single example of Jedi mind trick use
- The lightsaber hilts and sounds each being more refined and elegant imo
Instantly sending me back to the pre-prequel era games, books & comics this series is. I am so glad that they chose to flesh out this era with the High Republic books first to ensure we have a vast array of literature and strong world building to draw from.
Naturally hyped for next week. We’re eating well today.
The mind trick on the crazy/unstable man was great, just stop babbling nonsense and tell me the truth.
Hmmm I think my expectations were set incorrectly for this show. From the rumblings I heard before the premiere, it was on a similair level as Andor and was kind of a murder mystery thing. It is nothing like Andor (so far) and the murder 'mystery' was solved (at least for the viewers) at the end of the first episode. I was excited about the possibility of 'Law & Order in space with Jedi' since it seemed like a fresh genre for Star Wars but this...is more like 'generic Star Wars plot line #45'. I plan to keep watching because the High Republic era is interesting, but the story has been bleh so far for me.
Also weird that Carrie-Anne Moss figured so prominently in the hype & advertising just to be killed off in the first few minutes. If I was excited that she was in the show (I was ambivalent towards it myself) I would be super mad about that.
I'm afraid Andor has ruined me when it comes to Star Wars media. :-/
We won't get something as good as Andor until we do. That is, you can't plan on it. It will happen eventually, but Andor was a hard to match high water mark. (I also would have appreciated Acolyte more as a mystery.)
Am I the only one that felt like they spoiled the whole plot in the first episode? Like the twin thing could have been a big mystery but we already know what's going on. Also we see the evil twin's master (whoever it is), so we know it's a Sith plot.
I'm hoping this means they have gotten the "too obvious" plot points out of the way and can now dig into some other aspects of the story.
The twins and the Sith are both things anyone could have predicted, just from the trailers.
Fingers crossed: Sol has a really compelling character arc.
I'm actually kind of glad they resolved the twin thing right away, dragging it out would have belabored the point.
for the record, it could be a generic Dark Jedi, not a Sith.
We still don't know who they are. We also don't know why they're making a big deal about not using weapons. it could just be a generic assassin rite of passage thing... and it's Disney so they probably won't go any deeper there even if they set it up... but it could also be some sort of very intriguing philosophical beef.
I'm leaning Sith right now if only because Jason Qimir started in on "peace is a lie" for that split-second.
I do think "philosophical beef" is probably the right answer, though. Because if some random orphan, taking Forcin' classes part-time on a beach with some shady-lookin' drifter, can not only match but surpass a Jedi master in a Force-off... That's gotta do some serious damage to the Order's reputation, right? Especially if it comes out that the Jedi specifically failed to train her identical twin? Imagine you're one of the parents whose child went off with the Jedi because it was the "best way to realize their cosmic destiny", never to see them again because the order drills "attachments are spiritual poison" into their heads from childhood, and suddenly you find out that, basically, homeschooling was an option the whole time? Now you start thinking maybe those "enlightened peacekeepers" training your kid to "harness their spiritual potential" might just be... kidnapping children and indoctrinating them into their weird death-cult to raise a galaxy-spanning theocratic paramilitary with a forced monopoly on psychic phenomena, against which the common denizen has no defense — who are, incidentally, hoarding all knowledge pertaining to their Order's history, philosophy, training, and religious practice on inscrutable magic prisms that only they know how to open and read, which they keep in a locked vault in the back of their heavily-guarded stronghold. Trust in the Jedi erodes, maybe folks are a little more hesitant to send the youngsters off to Force Camp, and the Jedi Order either stagnates without new recruits or they start taking drastic measures which will, of course, only erode the public trust more, rinse and repeat until the Jedi go exctinct, and the Sith kick back with a couplea space brewskis and have a grand ol' chuckle. "Kills the dream" indeed.
Exactly. But the sith and dark Jedi have a lot of history, it’s possible the creed was adopted by the sith from the dark Jedi.
Also, that’s exactly what the Jedi do. Depending on the era, the my stole babies because they were easier to brainwash indoctrinate train.
Also, never doubt the ability of beach creepers.
Remember what he said? They don’t kill the Jedi. They kill the dream.
The Torbin scene/timeline was confusing.
Sol says he'd like to talk to Torbin.
Sol is taken on a long indirect path to Torbin.
Long enough that Osha can get there first.
That was really weird for me, too. Then they did it so they could use the cliche "suspect looking sus" trope. And then they undid that 20 seconds later. It's a minor gripe but I did notice that was all really confusing and nonsensical for no good reason. Star Wars has been doing a lot of that lately. Ahsoka was full of scenes that just didn't need to be there or made no sense.
Ahsoka was more egregious in my opinion. It really aggravated me in the first half season. This particular one was small enough that I can just let it go and not worry about it.
Maybe was worsen by the editing, 1 scene showing that she used a shortcut/hole in the wall fix the scene easily.
It may be a bit early to make this call, but I'm ready to retcon this entire show out of canon. It makes too many bold new assertions about the Star Wars IP without grasping the basics of the lore. It then compounds these missteps with lackluster choreography, cheesy writing, a horribly misguided plot, and several lapses in logic that not even Dave Filoni could explain away if you gave him a 7 season animated series. And it's only been 3 episodes.
Lee Jung-jae's back must really hurt after carrying this entire show alone. I wouldn't blame him if he never worked with western media ever again.
I know Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin are supposed to be some of the best jedi ever, but I didn't realize how much worse they all were until this show. At this point it's clear Palpatine didn't need to be an evil genius, just occasionally competent.
They did the Jedi so dirty. The council members are petty, the masters can't defend themselves against a sith apprentice, and the knights are constantly taking Ls on screen. The only one who seems mostly competent so far is the padawan Jecki.
Quite enjoyed these first two episodes. Bit annoyed that Carrie Ann Moss got killed in the opening moments, though.
However, my nitpicking got the better of me (blame autism, I do!). A fire burning on the hull of a ship. OK. The second nitpick was when the Jedi was on the lookout with his binoculars from the 1st floor balcony. When it changed to the POV shot, the footage is quite clearly filmed from the ground.
But apart from that, I enjoyed the fights and the story is quite good so far. Hopefully the quality remains constant to the end.
Interesting that that opening fight had both knives and blood - I think there was a time (before Andor) where both those things weren't really allowed in Star Wars. It felt like nothing that came after really lived up to that. Episode 2 had two writers, joined by the word 'and' rather than an ampersand, meaning that they worked on it separately, which doesn't bode well (the last time I saw that for a TV show was Secret Invasion, and that was rubbish).
It's okay, good enough to keep watching. It looks like it's getting review-bombed though, so there must be something about it that's upset people.
Also, as soon as my stupid brain heard that a character was called Osha, it didn't stop thinking about Star Wars Health and Safety violations:
It looks like it's getting review-bombed though, so there must be something about it that's upset people.
Is it because the main character is a black woman? I have a feeling it might be.
I say this as a white dude: I don't care if there is never another white male main character in Star Wars again. Everyone who cares can see themselves out of the fandom and leave it to those of us who just genuinely love Star Wars.
Probably.
At one point, Yord mentions her mothers, so I wondered if it was that was part of it too. Female show runner, too, of course. I could probably delve into YouTube and see what's stirred the bigots up, but I'd rather not get depressed finding out.
Sadly you're right, I've watched the beginning of three different 'critiques' on YouTube, and all of their first points are summed up by 'oh no, it's multiple women in major roles'. And at least one of them didn't like that Amandla Stenberg is non-binary.
I for one like the first episode. Especially how they made clear that the politics and public perception of them is the jedi's utmost priority, which might help explain the downfall of the jedi order in the prequels.
There is nothing in the show that indicates the character is non-binary, which if it did fuck anyone who cares, but they are a freaking actor. Who they are in real life doesn't matter. Did they act well? Good fucking job, the end.
If you hadn't mentioned it, I'd never have known. Or thought to inquire.
Star Wars can be brutal when the production feels like it. I was still taken a little out of how overchoreographed the fights seemed, with many moments of total dramatic pauses seemingly so the character could again leap into a sudden action. I want the fight style to break out of this particular strange stylization.
Ha. Fair enough. I'm still of the view that there was some kind of 'no knives' rule until recently.
Oh no. I can't think of any small knives showing up in the original trilogy (there were spears, axes, and other melee weapons though), but I don't think that was out of any kind of ban.
In a lot of legends material, there are knifes being used. In the Thrawn books, which are some of the establishing EU, an officer under Thrawn has his throat slit in front of the crew. Visual depictions of knives, especially vibroblades could be found in games like Knights Of The Old Republic, and Republic Commando.
Yeah, I think you're right. And I've played KOTOR fairly recently too. I might just be misremembering something from a podcast.
This is off topic but your profile picture of an Ian Banks cover looks like a very dramatic Jedi.
Yeah, on some level, I think that's always been part of the appeal of it - I've used it for ages.
Perhaps, though we mustn’t forget the first movie shows Luke’s adoptee parents as skeletons on screen and has blood when Obi Wan dismembers that alien in the Mos Eisley canteen.
This show is going to benefit a lot from binge re-watching. Episode 5 was the most fun so far, and really dials up the stakes for most of the characters, but ultimately it's a long action set piece with a predictable reveal in the middle of it. Nothing much happens.
And while the reveal was predictable, it was also fine. If those motherfuckers had denied me DARTH BORTLES(!!!) I would have set the building on fire. Best acting and best character in the show so far, and really getting to chew the scenery with Sith philosophy that would be absolutely fanboy-friendly catnip if it were being delivered by a white male with a name they recognized.
I don't love everything about this show, not by a long shot, but beyond our villain, Sol is likeable, Jecki and Yord grew on me just enough I was mildly sad they killed them, and also surprised. There has also now been lightsaber combat that's better than anything in TV Star Wars. I actually want to find out what really happened and what the exact nature of the stain on the 4 Jedi souls is, so I guess that makes a show like this a success.
I do wish they'd offered a bit more of a lore dump to remind me about Cortosis, though. I really thought Jason Mendoza was permanently breaking lightsabers and was very confused when they started working again.
Yes, absolutely agree on the Cortosis thing. I did not know about that and kept thinking were lightsabers really that unreliable in history? It was just heavily overused for something that had no introduction at all.
Osha on the cliff face:
"I didn't kill her!"
Bonus: She even escaped a crashed prison vehicle after being arrested for a crime she did not commit!
If Mae loses an arm now...
That one prisoner that Osha saved:
The premise of an evil doppelgänger framing the main character for murders seems trite to me, like an idea that was out of an ‘80s B-film. The One-Punch Man clad Jedi also seem to be making the worst plans for the sake of dragging out the plot, ex. sending in Osha alone to talk to the apothecary guy (whom they at the time didn’t know was unaware that Osha was alive), or somehow taking a long route and slow walk to the meditating Jedi even though they knew exactly where he was, or not sealing off the open roof above the meditating Jedi after he was attacked, or not using the stun gun on Mae during the attempted arrest. There were a few other nitpicks that I had.
The meditating Jedi was cool, though it feels like we needed more background on him. Sol is interesting, and I wonder why he claimed that he saw Mae die. I’d like further depth on Osha’s character, like her showing what makes her tick and what her aims are, rather than just pulling her through situations; her looking back to save the prisoner is a good example of what can help an audience understand a character’s personality, and her frustrated and crafty reaction to having to improvise surviving the landing is a good example of showing her skills and assets. I hope this series allows the characters to express their personalities more, rather than just be pushed from A to B by episodic plot. I’m not familiar with this era of the galaxy, so I look forward to further explanation within the show as to what sets the Jedi and High Republic government apart from how they are in the Prequel Trilogy.
They just like to show guests the courtyard, no matter where in the temple they are heading.
To answer your last question: If you think of the Prequel Jedi like the English royals of the last few hundred years, think of the High Republic Jedi as King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. The Jedi at this time are at their peak. They are doing the most good, and in the eyes of the people, they are the best they ever were.
As for the government, the Republic is expanding and trying to incorporate more of the outer rim territories. There aren’t major corporations sitting on the senate, and the government is also at its peak.
Also, I totally thought the prisoner was Glenn Howerton until the parasite was removed.
As for the government, the Republic is expanding and trying to incorporate more of the outer rim territories. There aren’t major corporations sitting on the senate, and the government is also at its peak.
CorSec is probably short for Corporate Sector... so... uhm. something to think about.
I'm really enjoying this one so far. There's a few goofy things here and there but overall it's one of the better Star Wars series. If you haven't watched it yet, leave all baggage at the door, ignore the online angst, and just watch it for what it is: a space opera serial in the same lineage as Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers. It's just brought up to a more modern style with a more diverse cast. Not a big deal. Watch it like your ten-year-old self would, and you'll have a good time.
All the silly kung fu fights and forced samurai references seem to be ruining what could have been a great story...
Don't get me wrong, I love old kung fu movies, and I LOVE samurai movies and TV shows, but this is too much. I realize the Jedi are somewhat based on samurai characters, but it feels almost like this is just a remake of an old martial arts film with Jedi thrown in so they could name it a Star Wars property
The actual detective/mystery story itself seems pretty interesting but it keeps getting lost under all the other fluff
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Did you also dislike the Mandalorian's spaghetti western-ness too? This is how these things go. Just embrace the fact that this series is going to be an ode to kung fu movies.
The spaghetti westerness of Mandalorian was done with enough subtlety that it only served to enhance the story without completely overshadowing it. I've been enjoying the story in Acolyte but it feels completely overshadowed by all the Kung Fu antics. It feels like less of an ode to kung fu movies and more like someone made a fully realized kung fu series and then just slapped on a bunch of Star Wars stuff to try and make it more profitable.
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I thought the Mandalorian was anything but subtle about it's western roots, not that I minded. It had pretty much every western trope you could think of. Showdowns, savior of the town, making peace with the natives, town needs a sheriff, cowboy father figure...the list goes on.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. I thought Mandalorian made good use of western tropes within the context of a Star Wars story, whereas to me it seems like Acolyte is almost trying steer away from being a Star Wars story at all and just including the bare minimum to still be a part of the franchise. Kind of like what Zack Snyder tried to do with Rebel Moon where he wrote an unrelated movie and then tried to shoe horn it in to the Star Wars universe
Just wanted to pop in and say I'm still greatly enjoying it. I feel like a lot of the Internet is jumping to conclusions with some Ep3 stuff that is hinted at but not actually said... Kinda now just holding out hope that the show is going where I expect and can make them eat crow.
So spoilers obviously.
We didn't learn much about the sith or the dark side (yet). Hopeful we will, as it's Sol's goal as well.
The twin thing is odd. I mean I can see why the actor doesn't want to be type cast as a villain. Hopefully it will make more sense later.... It is fun to see one person play two completely different characters but the plot of it becomes tiresome.
Death early on that might make people irrationally angry. I'm just sad.
Lots of bizarre choices. Like when they track Osha in the snow via the force and not via her foot prints...?
Definitely a lot of room for cool shit. Learning about this mystery master. Figuring out why both sisters thought the other was dead. New fighting styles for Star Wars, decent amount of action so far and not a light saber battle yet.
Lots of bizarre choices. Like when they track Osha in the snow via the force and not via her foot prints…?
in windy/blizzardy conditions footprints last seconds, and they're hard to follow. Also, presumably, it was meant to highlight Sol's continued connection to her.
Lots of bizarre choices. Like when they track Osha in the snow via the force and not via her foot prints…?
That particular choice is one I can absolutely understand: when you're used to feeling your environment so much that it's among your default senses, you might get used to having it always-on. Like when you track your quest goal on the minimap despite having footprints and visual clues visible in a game.
What irked me more was the contrived stand-off when she split off from the party that was heading straight to Torbin. Did she want to beat them there? Why did she feel like she had to get there faster than the rest of the group [other than for the external reason that they had to find some contrived way to create the forced misunderstanding - which was pretty pointless anyway since it was resolved 20 seconds later, and added nothing but half a minute of runtime]).
The writing is... serviceable. But it's at a level I've come to expect from animated series aimed at a younger audience. It seems rather flat and a lot of it is just standing across each other and spewing exposition at their opposite, sometimes info they all already know, obviously just for the sake of the viewer.
After the first 3 episodes felt like a 00's Disney teen sitcom I considered giving up on this show, but this week felt more coherent to me. The forests of Khofar is the best locale so far, the conversational writing has improved and so the acting feels more natural (mostly). I'm still not thrilled that the Jedi Order is being portrayed as mostly antagonistic, and I'm a bit concerned that the best episode so far is one in which very little happens, but the last scene actually has me excited for next week. Here's hoping that the second half overshadows the rocky start.
Maybe it's someone who just happened to be hanging around
I'm more interested in seeing him kill a couple of the unnamed Jedi. Hopefully they handle it better then the first fight scene.
Maybe it's someone who just happened to be hanging around
Yea yea, the potions guy ikik... I was talking more in terms of the name. The Sith name that is. I've seen ppl say "Qimir" quite a lot.
I'm more interested in seeing him kill a couple of the unnamed Jedi. Hopefully they handle it better then the first fight scene.
Oh I'm definitely expecting that to happen. I rlly doubt any Jedi is getting out of there alive including Sol. Sol did the cliche "I'll tell u what happened when we get back", and then dying.
The Sith? fellow clearly is eyeing for Osha. Maybe he manipulates her by re-emphasising the lie that Mae killed her family? Perhaps trapping her into sunk cost by making her kill Mae?
I agree with some of your points, but I have to disagree on the Jedi Order's portrayal--I love it. It feels so in line with what we got in the prequels, that this is the organization that became the failed order that couldn't stop Palpatine, that was corrupted by the Jedi not following their own code, and this is one example of how they got there (which I feel Ki Adi Mundi's inclusion further cements.
But this is 200 years before the fall. We're supposed to see how the Jedi lost their way. This is just a bunch of incompetent assholes with authority. The witches call them kidnappers and they barely deny it while nearly embodying it. Where's the honor? Where's the mysticism? Why must we continually suffer this bag of dicks while being told 'this is what they were always supposed to be.'
Look at the Roman Empire. Did it fall overnight? We have tons of stories about the great things they did. Wasn't there also shitty stuff happening?
So many of the recent stories have made the universe more real. I like that. Sorry if you don't.
But this is 200 years before the fall.
To be pedantic, it’s 132 BBY. So 115 years before the fall.
Episode 5
Calling it, Sol is a Sith. He was Qimirs master, then Qimir somehow left (yes: somehow, Qimir left!) and Sol has been trying to convert another Padawan to his cause ever since. Osha didn't work out, so now its Jecki. Well, it was.
That's why Sol is familiar with Qimirs presence. It's also why he asks Qimir "why risk discovery" because he is a Sith in hiding. It is also why he tried to attack Qimir when he had his back turned on him.
It is the secret he wanted to talk to Osha about.
I know, bit farfetched. But something's fishy with Master Sol.
Calling it, Sol is a Sith. He was Qimirs master, then Qimir somehow left (yes: somehow, Qimir left!) and Sol has been trying to convert another Padawan to his cause ever since.
Now that would be a hell of a twist! Qimir is clearly not the master. He still feels a lot weaker than what I expect a full on Sith Master to be like. Also, he says that he wants a pupil instead of an apprentice. I expect the actual Sith Master to be revealed at the end. It would be really cool if it was Sol himself.
Also, see how Qimir killed all Jedi that saw his face but didn't really run behind Sol much? I dunno...
I need to rewatch the episode, but I also felt like his recognition of him went deeper than "oh yeah, you're that guy we saw in the street before with Mae". Same thing with Yord. I could be way off here, but I felt like both of them had some kind of actual history with him. And maybe they didn't realize it until he was up close and personal, because he was much older / different.
I'm bummed that streaming shows on Disney premiere at "primetime".
I'd love to watch during lunch or after work but nope... Gotta wait till 9pm (EST)
I know HBO does it but they also have a real TV channel, but also I hate it there too.
Even on the West Coast, I’d love if it aired an hour earlier. If I were on the East Coast, I would probably just move.
After 4 episodes, I am now convinced we've seen the best this show has to offer and it's only going to get worse.
After 4 episodes, I am now convinced we've seen the best this show has to offer and it's only going to get worse.
I dunno about you, but I thought episode 5 was awesome. Also I’m really excited to see the other side of the story we saw in episode 3. I suspect this show will be better as a binge rather than weekly, because we’ve been burned enough times that we’re quick to assume plot holes are mistakes rather than purposeful setup.
This isn’t the best Star Wars show, but I’m liking it.
Episode 5 was really bad. There were lots of action scenes, but they relied heavily on characters just teleporting. The lightsaber thing was really weird, and doesn't really make sense. The show could have just ended at 5, but there's more episodes so the bad guy just survives anyway.
If by “the lightsaber thing” you mean them shorting out, that was awesome. The helmet and wrist guards were made of Cortosis, and I’m happy to see them bring stuff in from the EU.
If the series ended at 5, I’d be mad, because we need to see alternate viewpoints of 3.
It probably should have stayed in the EU at this point. The empire would have given that to inquisitors when hunting jedi. The separatists would have gotten enough for at least grevious to have some. Bringing in magic anti jedi armor in a prequel gets really problematic.
It’s extremely rare, not particularly well known, difficult to work with, and not very durable. You saw how Darth Bortles’s helmet sustained lightsaber hits but broke from a punch. It has limited usefulness, but Sith armor is one use.
Nothing is so extremely rare that the empire wouldn't have it. Arguing Palpatine wouldn't have heard of it seems like a dead end. You can maybe argue palps wouldn't give the separatists something that useful, but his dedicated jedi hunters would have had it.
WHAT AN EPISODE!!!
Episode 4 was absolutely amazing! The acting has improved (the conversations between Osha and the padawan girl felt incredibly natural). And do I need to talk about the ending?
SPOLIERS AHEAD
How was the Sith? guy at the end so fkin powerful lol. One flick and he can send everything flying away? Jeeez... Also, is this guy Mae's friend? Uk, the one accompanying her everywhere. Would explain how he got there so fast. Also, what is his motivation to set Mae up? Does he just want to kill a few Jedi? Does he want to turn Osha to the dark side or something (uk, after seeing how he eyed her and didn't kill her)? Isn't Osha actually weaker in the force when compared to Mae? I've so many questions lol. Also, props to the designers of this character! His mask is SO CREEPY.
Really can't wait for the coming episodes.