Trump says he'll "proudly be arrested" tomorrow in Georgia
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Just a moment...
https://www.axios.com/2023/08/23/trump-surrender-georgia-fulton-county-indictment
Had to edit this comment. There's more!
Edit number 2 below!
Edit number 3 below!
Here's the arrest list so far:
Cathy Latham, 5'2" 155 lbs
Scott Hall, 6'0" 235 lbs
John Eastman, 5'7" 160 lbs
David Shafer, 5'5" 150 lbs
Kenneth Chesebro, 5'11" 185 lbs
Ray Stallings Smith III, 5'11" 195 lbs
Rudolph Giuliani, 5'11" 230 lbs
Sidney Powell, 6'0" 170 lbs
11 12 13 more traitors to go, less than 3 days left.
Omg actual height and weight data on Trump tomorrow?
With or without the lifts and diaper?
Hah everyone has been so fixated on getting his weight that I forgot that we also get his true height without the shoe lifts. What a day.
So what's the Secret Service procedure on having someone they're protecting be booked in a State Court system?
I doubt it ever happened before, so whatever the policy will be, it's going to be brand new
Is it clear how close they have to be to an ex-President at all times? Is the law written that they need to be in visual contact at all times? I have no idea.
I hadn't thought of it that way. He's definitely entitled to protection while in prison. I don't see any statute or regulation that sets a distance. They have to protect dude though.
It's called 'protective custody.' Child molesters, known stool pigeons, and ex-cops are kept in a separate area. Cells are locked 23 hours a day with one hour of exercise alone in a segregated yard.
I don't think he will be "in prison" in any sense during the booking, so it doesn't sound too important about how close they are.
Simple fix - just house him with any SS agents that end up getting charged with corruption in the fallout.
I imagine it's a case of the Secret Service coordinating with the State on how to handle Trump. No matter what he did, he's a former president, and is entitled to the protection of the Secret Service.
Bet he'll get Epstein'd, though.
Honestly, him never being president again and having to stay alone for a few years in a cheap motel with free HBO with the Secret Service guarding outside would be enough for me.
One of those really sleazy rooms with the heart shaped jacuzzi that has the DNA of thousands of people clogging the pump. And a bed that vibrates if you put a quarter in it. And wood panel walls.
ADX Florence is designed to keep the prisoners completely isolated, there aren't any hallway encounters for a walk-by shiv.
It's pretty much the only place he could be incarcerated without going full Pablo.
I was about to say - being a supermax, there is no interaction with other prisoners, so that makes the Secret Service's job easier.
Most likely though, I'm thinking the Dept. of Corrections may end up building a dedicated facility just for Trump. A prison with one prisoner sort of like Spandau Prison in Germany.
Good enough for ordinary citizens == good enough for the president. Prison system too dangerous? He had the chance to fix it while he was in charge.
Not law enforcement. I'd assume that they'd come to some arraignment with the Correction Officers before hand.
come to some arraignment
Not sure if that was intentional but it works well either way haha
I still think he's going to pull some stunt. He's incapable of just simply obeying something like this.
The stunt is going to be after the booking, when he holds a press conference and says stupid shit which would revoke anyone else's bail agreement, but he will continue to get a pass because his followers are a dangerous cult.
I think you're right. As much as it galls me, he'll suffer no consequences because he has millions of armed angry followers. One speech from him might actually start a civil war.
Fuck rupert murdoch and fox news for ratcheting up the rhetoric over the years to keep their viewers scared, angry, and glued to their TVs. And fuck right wing talk radio for doing the same thing.
There is trouble in the forest And the creatures all have fled As the maples scream, "Oppression!" And the oaks just shake their heads
He tried to rally his followers before and got like 5 people showing up. That ship has sailed, he's not an unassailable lord and it harms Democracy to pretend he is.
This time I want to be more certain than that. I’m glad that he seems to be losing followers but he’s still a really dangerous person.
I know it would be a terrible thing but it would be the most one-sided civil war in the history of ever.
His followers are massively gung ho but they really only care about themselves. Once actual consequences, such as returning fire, make themselves felt I suspect a lot of them will slink off back to Alabama or whatever.
There will be a lot of grumbling and accusations from them, but they won't do anything very much because they don't dare. Having guns won't protect you from the US military if the US military doesn't like you, and they'll soon work that one out.
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The court has some reasons that benefit justice, and not trump, to lean hard toward “push ahead and avoid extra drama.” Trump wants to delay everything and make himself the victim. Letting him push the envelope here and there deprives him of what he ultimately wants.
God damn it. This is one of those comments that makes me rage to read but I have to concede that you're right.
Any drama at this point is just fodder for the inevitable appeals.
Turning himself in the day after the GOP debate is the stunt.
They'll just process and release him. He's out on bond in several places at this point.
Yep.
No matter what happens at the debate, all the news will be talking about the next morning is trump turning himself in.
If he waited till the last day like he said, they'd have a day in the news cycle
After Covid he planned on wearing a Superman logo. He’s definitely thinking of a way to show off. Maybe arrive in prison stripes and claim the prosecutor demanded it?
Some of the other clowns in the circus might pull a stunt like that, but Trump is the Whiteface, the clown that emphasizes pride and arrogance.
He would never allow himself to do something that he thinks will look bad. Not to say his bungling incompetence doesn't do that for him, it's just that he won't do it as a conscious choice.
Clowns are somewhat interesting.the Whiteface is the know-it-all straight man, and the Auguste is the bumbling doofus who is the butt of every joke. The Auguste is the first to get a pie in the face. You laugh at the Auguste.
The Whiteface on the other hand is the person telling you who to laugh at. They tell the mean jokes to get the audience to laugh at others. This makes it so much more satisfying when the Auguste finally hits the Whiteface with the pie.
Anyway Trump couldn't tell a joke if his life depended on it, but he still fills the role of Whiteface in this circus. He'll pull stunts, but only if he thinks it will make someone else look bad.
I think it's more likely the fact that clown shows used to be something aimed at adults, and then they got dumbed down to be kid friendly.
Old school performances had lots of jokes about murder, sex, suicide, and other dark topics.
Look at it this way, the Three Stooges was actually a clown show. Moe was the Whiteface. Larry, Curly, and Shep played the role of Auguste.
That's how it sort of went, the actual clowns ditched the makeup and started performing on TV or in movies, and the children's performers threw out all of the rich history and defined roles and instead focused on bright colors and loud fart jokes. Not that fart jokes weren't a rich part of that history. They really were.
Other contributing factors in the death of the clown show were things like The Joker, and John Wayne Gacy.
BTW, the Joker is a classic Whiteface clown taken to a sadistic extreme, he wouldn't be caught dead wearing a red nose. To the Joker, jokes happen to other people. That's what he finds funny. The fact that no one else laughs is what drives him mad.
(As a note, the Auguste is also sometimes called the Red Nose, because they wear the over sized red nose, the white face might paint their nose red, but will never wear the prop)
I saw a troupe at the circus in Brasil growing up (this was well after the 3 Stooges, I'm not that old), and the vibe very much was mean-spirited like you described in the first post, not the Bozo Show kiddie version you're talking about here.
I preferred the elephant kicking soccer balls into the crowd, she boomed the shit out of those little suckers.
Excellent point about the 3 Stooges though, I had thought of it primarily as borscht belt wordplay + slapstick on film, but the social dynamics really do match circus clowns.
Yeah, the Whiteface is a sort of archetype that can be off-putting if done wrong.
Look at modern comedians who often follow the clown archetypes, if loosely. George Carlin was a prime example of the Whiteface. He pointed at a wrong in the world, and people laughed at it.
Robin Williams was an Auguste. He took pratfalls, he had zany antics, pure physical comedy matched with rapier wit. You laughed at him as often as you laughed at something he said about someone else.
There's also a third archetype, mostly American in the clown world, the Tramp. These guys are like the Auguste in that they're the butt of the joke, but unlike the Auguste, they never have a moment where they win. They're the downtrodden, the bumbling idiots who never suceed in pointing and laughing, only at being pointed at. The trope is the life so bad that it's funny.
Another piece of media to really understand clowns is the play, Waiting for Godot. You can find versions of it on Youtube, and the Internet Archive. It's a darkly funny play that is actually a clown show pretending to be a play. It's surreal and kind of fucked up, but in a good way.
I've spent far too much time thinking about clowns and clown history for someone who doesn't tell jokes. I spent some time researching comedy and how it's changed over the years.
For example, the classic roles of comedy still sort of carry over to modern comedians. For example, Goerge Carlin was a classic example of a Whiteface. His comedy was almost always about telling you who you should be laughing at. He pointed, and you laughed, he never took a pratfall, You never laughed at him.
Robin Williams on the other hand more often took on the role of the Auguste, the Red Nose (Because they're the only clowns that wear the red nose prop). He was loud and boisterous, and took pratfalls. You laughed at his antics, his physical humor, just as much as at what he said.
The Auguste is almost always the butt of the joke when there's a Whiteface, but can be the one playing the jokes when paired with a Rube (A straight man who isn't in on the joke)
There are more classic clown roles that exist, the Tramp is an American clown (but the underlying concept is global) that is always the butt of every joke. Their makeup is usually patterned after the 1930s hobo, they take the sad clown motif to the extreme. The sort of "my life is so shit that it's funny" kind of archetype. Or they can show up in a sort of "the prince and the pauper" situation where they're either slobs in a high society setting, or show refined manners while eating out of a trashcan.
The Tramp is like an extreme form of the Auguste. While the Auguste might get revenge on the Whiteface, the Tramp never will. Also, the Auguste will abuse the Tramp in exactly the same way that he in tern is abused by the WhiteFace.
The Three Stooges come to mind for this dynamic, although none of them were really the Tramp. Larry was firmly an Auguste, and Curly and Shep were closer to the Tramp side of things, but were still Auguste. Moe was a Whiteface.
Anyway, I hope that helps to explain the circus that is the Trump org. They aren't trying to be clowns, but they fit the roles.
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What does this look like in context? Not charging him for crimes? Not covering this extremely newsworthy event?
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If he wins in court, which is very likely,
Show your work here, because none of the actual lawyers I've seen weigh in on this have come to that conclusion.
Any attempt to flee and a pair of fully armed F-22s will bring them back. Trump's plane is being tracked.
Remember when he divested himself from his businesses? He held a press conference with a stack of folders large enough to be unlikely and nobody was allowed to see what was inside.
My money would have been on that again.
I don't recall Trump ever doing or saying anything without some element of egomaniacal pride, boasting, or grandstanding. He should get the opportunity to rot in a prison cell while endlessly showing up in court and being returned to said prison cell.
This more than anything makes me feel like he might actually flee. He always says the opposite of the truth, like when he said that he won the election.
He can't. The Secret Service are assigned to him. They're not just bodyguards...
The same secret service that tried to lure Mike Pence into a car to remove him from the Capitol?
The same secret service that Mike Pence said "if I get in that car I know I'm not coming back?
The same secret service that had to be completely rotated after Biden took office because there was a legitimate threat to Biden?
The same secret service that deleted their phone records after January 6th?
Yeah I'm sure they're all in the good and none of them would defect with Trump
Edit: oh, And there's this article that was posted to c/politics about half an hour ago
https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-investigations/emails-reveal-secret-service-contacts-with-oath-keepers/
Not when it has to do with his pride/ego.
If he is telling his supporters being arrested is a point of pride, he will go in and be arrested, and hell make comments while he does.
I wish, but I think some of his more... enthusiastic supporters would get violent.
I imagine that the Federal and Georgian governments want to avoid a horde of people rioting and trying to free him from jail. There would be assholes just itching to open fire on "the deep state" and you'd need the national guard to defend the prison/jail. Even if the trumpists started it, such a thing might actually spark a civil war.
They’re already violent, and getting more so. Appeasing them isn’t going to make them suddenly behave.
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If you don't do the right thing because you're afraid of bad actors, then the bad actors have won. I'm afraid of violence, too. But if the courts find him guilty on a charge that leads to incarceration, then he should be held to the same standard.
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I imagine that the Federal and Georgian governments want to avoid a horde of people rioting and trying to free him from jail.
Atlantan here. Bring it on; I don't give a shit. We can arrest all the Cobb County MAGA terrorists too, while we're at it!
I just had a thought. . . Put trump in jail as bait. . .. let his followers come to "rescue" him. . . . Let them experience the American military power that they love so much. . . I don't think their AR-15s are going to be much help vs tanks and helicopters and satellites, etc
Let them get violent… we need to speed this shit up and have the civil war already before another GQP president had control over the military. Sure, people are gonna die… but it won’t be anyone on the left.
#consequences 🤪
A civil war would mean drone dropped grenades like in Ukraine. A lot of people on both sides would die and many more would be maimed.
My first instinct was to shame you for your indifference of right-leaning human lives lost, but I would rather use this as an opportunity to educate since I thought the same as you at one point.
January 6th was a violent insurrection, and as a result of that violence, people who were doing their jobs were traumatized to the point of suicide, and the traitor Ashley Babbitt is immortalized as a saint. The "GQP" will look at comments like yours and say "THE LEFT HATES TRUE PATRIOTIC AMERICANS AND WANT TO KILL US" to rally their supporters into a frenzy. Leaders will use more polarizing language and all but ensure the next January 6 style attack will be bloodier and more effective. Innocent people will be wrapped up in this, and people will die, whether you think they deserve it or not.
We need to treat this with the urgency of a severe mental health crisis. We're quite literally witnessing mass cult brainwashing where people I love and respected fall down this rabbit hole of an abusive relationship between themselves and these far right provocateurs. For those that have not committed crimes against their fellow man, we should work towards helping them. For those who have, let the courts deal with them and have them rot.
Again with this shit.
Nazis will say the left hates patriots NO MATTER WHAT THE LEFT does.
The truth DOES NOT MATTER to them.
So stop with the appeasement bullshit.
Makes punching Nazis acceptable again.
I'd implore you to re-read my comment. I'm asserting a call to action to those who can be saved. Nazis wish harm on their fellow man. Let them rot.
Edit:
When I say let the Nazis rot, I mean lock them up and throw away the key. In my opinion, those who deny others their freedom should be doomed to having their freedoms stripped away.
They don’t rot. They fester. They survive and grow until they take over. They must be stopped at whatever cost.
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I agree with the sentiment, but the ones that have fallen down the rabbit hole are virtually impossible to reach. I had someone I knew go that way. We previously had excellent political discussions and pushed each other to examine our biases, but now he drunkenly rambles about the evil libs online.
Meanwhile those unreachable people are feeling more and more persecuted and their beliefs (which are already based on fear) confirmed. Maybe they keep their heads in the sand and "trust the plan," but when they realize the storm is never coming, they may resort to violence.
I definitely agree with what you're saying. Some people are too far gone that no amount of facts and logic will persuade them. Innuendo Studios put out an excellent suite of videos on how the alt right is like an abusive relationship and a cult. I won't waste your time reiterating his points.
I do have a friend, let's call him Greg, who is ultra religious and genuinely believes that he needs a carrying permit for his firearm because there's no way to tell who has a gun willing to put him and his family in harms way. He also believes a lot of the talking points that you would expect about abortion, LGBTQ rights, etc. Whenever I debate Greg, he backs up his claims with how he feels and the superfluous fact that erases some pretty important context. He has no idea he's being misled on issues specifically designed to polarize us. Greg also believes that white people are the most discriminated against in today's world, and trans people "are coming". He's very fearful of his fellow man for someone who's supposed to love his neighbor, but as his friend of almost 10 years, I know he would never hurt a fly.
With the exception to abortion, he's been slowly outgrowing this culture of fear and is adopting more middle of the road stances. I'm not sure how he snapped out of the fear-mongering, but I'm just glad he did.
There's always hope.
I hear your opinion, but I disagree. Thank you for not trying to shame me, because I wouldn’t feel shame for being (what I feel is) right.
I’m not asking for a war… but if they want to try to “rise up,” the army will mow them down and we can all go back to a “normal” political landscape.
What utopia it would be, in comparison to the mental illness that is the right.
Thank you for clarifying what you meant with your original comment, it's most definitely a message I'm more on board with! At the end of the day, we are more human rights while the right is more tax cuts for the rich.
There's also no need to thank me for not shaming you, but it is appreciated and you're welcome! Just because we're on the internet doesn't mean you're not owed basic human decency.
Well, telling me you didn’t shame me is kind of like shaming me and also saying you’re better then me at the same time ;)
So, thanks for saying thanks 😉😉
Can't say that any of those things you listed someone should be ashamed of, but maybe not proud of them either.
Fwiw, Trump either genuinely believes he's done nothing wrong, or he needs his fans to believe it, so him saying this kinda tracks.
I guess there's a reason pride is a deadly sin
I get your point but I don't think anyone should be ashamed where they're from, per se. I have no power over where I'm born.
Just because you shouldn't feel proud of something doesn't mean you should be ashamed of it, and I don't think they're implying one should be. I'm not proud that I have a nose, but I'm not ashamed I do either; I just have one.
I'm not ashamed that I was born in a backwards, bible-thumping, right-wing hellhole. But, I am ashamed of how backwards and idiotic my home state is.
They are responding to someone who literally said they should be ashamed though. And one of the examples was being white. The blatant racism is disgusting.
I bet Trump smiles for the camera like fuckin' Tom DeLay did. Smarmy bastards, the both of 'em.
The best arrest. The best. It will be a yuge arrest, the likes that have never been seen before.
Honestly it's a crime to say that.
If you're Canadian, know the American feds can and will take you from Canada for what is a crime there but not in Canada.
They forgot who they're dealing with; clearly; but yeah.
No no, it's really a crime to utter a desire to see the president mortal harm. It's a nightmare bit of legal overreach, yes, but it's there. Obama could have arrested so many ignorant hillbillies.
Again, no. There is no law stating you can't wish death on someone. You can't publicly call for their death or anything. But merely wishing for it, or stating you desire it, is not a crime. It doesn't matter if they're a public official or not. There's literally nothing they could be charged with because again, it's not a law.
What possibly led you to think there was?
I'll just wait for his second arrest - after he violates the bond conditions, which he surely will do.
That's the one I'd be proud to watch.
