Acts 4:34-36
"For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales and lay them at the apostles’ feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need."
They mean this Christianity, right???
Somehow that translates to you have to give 10% of your income to Pastor Brian. Any other form of charity is great but you should still give Pastor Brian his 10% because he's doing a lot by telling you to give him 10% of your income.
The vast majority of pastors are volunteers or bi-vocational. And yes there are abuses. But also lots of them giving their time and resources to care for the under-resourced. My church''s sr. pastor is going from full time to bi-vocational this year because inflation hit the church and his family. But our church distributed 12 million pounds of food since covid
The tithe doesn't go to a pastor, it goes to fund the whole ministry. People working full time deserve a living wage, he's no different. Most Christians don't tithe anyway, it's usually 15% of the people giving 85% of the funds.
Our church distributed those millions of pounds of food on a $350k total budget each year which includes still paying mortgage on an under-maintained property. The total payroll and benefits for two full time and four part time staff was $165k last year. I don't think they're robbing people who chose to support that.
I really not sure your point. Does acts tell you that God requires you to give 10% of your income?
Your church sounds like an outlier. Many of the church I've seen have been seeded by larger churches and ministries which they are then indebted to. Most of which would not be so forthcoming with their financials.
Thats not the question though. Why is it a church would say that tithing 10% of your income is a requirement?
The vast majority of religious workers are akin to workers at a scam call centre. Selling you "thoughts and prayers" and guilt tripping you to give them money. Basically fooling you into something non-existent.
Scammers also give a lot of their time and resource and work full-time. I guess they deserve a living wage too, huh?
The only thing they need is run a pretend-charity, community service and food drives?
You sure seem to like your make-belief system where you think they are net-positive to the community. I'm sure a you would feel the same about scam call centres, if only they could upgrade their PR with some charity. All that without all the violent history.
But oh no, they're brown people in a third-world shithole… so that's a pass. I love my own pretend-charity cult with supreme people.
There is definitely predation on 3rd-world countries by the centralized religions.
"Join us and we can get you + converted family jobs.We can get you loans. You will get money from us."
Then 1 year later ... " You need to pay back what we did for you ... pay up every week"
"Did you just try to runaway ? We will now track your every move... pay us or ELSE!"
Thanks for adding those links.
It's annoying how many people are ignorant of the history of the Left.
Christian communism is a theological view (with some historic precedent) that believes Jesus and his apostles were the first communists, so the overlap is clearly there.
Not THAT Christianity. The war hungry, blood thirsty, brown people hating, brainwashing Christianity!
Love for only those that are worthy .... everyone else is an animal that is working for Satan and should be killed in the name of God
Exactly! People keep confusing Christianity with the bible but the former is a patriotic American religion and the latter is middle eastern leftist propaganda
So, Judaism?
But seriously, most of the bloodthirsty bits of the Christian Bible are bits carried over from the Torah. Hell, a lot of them are specifically about Joshua conquering everyone around.
And prevent anyone from being really rich.
And prevent banks from getting too big.
And be hospitable to refugees.
And a whole lot of other things that Y’all Qaeda don’t want.
In many historical societies including ancient Christian, Jewish, and Islamic societies, usury meant the charging of interest of any kind, and was considered wrong, or was made illegal.[3]
BTW chrishitery should be the next capitalist McCarthyism. Muhh! red hats!
This sounds good in theory, but is relatively bad in practice. Without interest, no one will loan the government money. Municipalities would need to rely on huge tax increases to fund large projects, instead of bonds funded by small tax increases over time.
No one will loan money to businesses either, and you are not getting any money to buy a house. It would favor those who already own established businesses, as they can just use profits from one to invest in another one.
I don’t think anyone is saying this is sound economic theory, just that Christianity has a lot of kooky shit that modern Christians are ignorant of and are contradictory to the theocracy they envision.
I think the idea is that you give loans to the needy, and do so out of generosity, hoping to get your money back but not relying on it. It's one of those things where the law does not work without the spirit.
That would mean rich donors end up "lending" money to the government for "no interest". I'm sure in return they would receive zero favors or benefits of any kind.
Like a lot of things in the Bible, it may work for goat herders lost in the Bronze Age desert. But it definitely doesn't literally work today. It didn't even work under the Romans during Jesus's time.
He was like "not a word shall be changed", but also don't worry about tiny details. Regarding keeping Kosher He said, "it's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you, but what comes out." The point is to keep yourself clean, not details about shellfish.
That would mean rich donors end up “lending” money to the government for “no interest”. I’m sure in return they would receive zero favors or benefits of any kind.
That can happen under just about any system.
Exactly, and no it can't "just happen under any system". Right now the US government is giving out 5.1% interest on risk free Treasury Bills. There's literally no way to bribe the Treasury with free money because everyone and their dog is rushing to lend the government money at those rates.
You realise that the government can (and does) just make new money? There is no need for the government to borrow any money (but it does it anyways for other more complex reasons). And if done in moderation the resulting inflation is in effect identical to taxes, except that it automatically "taxes" the rich more and incurages further investments.
And with sufficient inflation, businesses will have no problem to attract investments as people will want to have investments that retain their value, no interest needed.
Similarly, investing money in houses is sound business when inflation is relatively high, both individually and for housing companies.
But the real problem is anyways not basic interest, but compound interest that forces the borrower to repay the lend amount many times over and still be in debt afterwards.
No, no this is the part of Christianity where we convert heretics. With heavy automatic weaponry
Ha.. this is an obligation in Islam. I rather my tax dollars help the needy than help my nation and or other nations bomb nations.
this is an obligation in Islam.
Obligation doesn't mean they'll ever apply it. They only ever mention such when it's convenient, to make themselves look like better people. All Abrahamic religions are this way(doesn't mean any other religion's any better either). I live in a muslim country, it's just another tool of the state & the ultra rich to control people.
Uhm.. what. Zakat is one of the pillars of Islam.
There are five key practices that all Muslims are obligated to fulfil throughout their lifetime. These practices are referred to as pillars because they form the foundation of Muslim life. The five pillars of Islam are Shahada, Salah, Zakat, Sawm (fasting), and Hajj. Four categories of people do not pay Zakat: the poor, the indigent, the debt-ridden, and the unfree.
And charity is one of the virtues. Their point is that almost allreligions, and definitely the abrahamic ones, say that charity and altruism are core doctrine. Nobody actually follows through tho unless it's convenient.
"You don't actually read the bible, you just cherry picked some bits out of the atheist meme book" - actual response I've gotten when I've brought this up.
Funny, the whole thing is supposed to be applicable. They can't just ignore the parts that fit your terrible atheist agenda. And these points certainly aren't a matter of ignored context.
I've actually had other Christians argue against the message of love preached by Jesus, saying it's inapplicable here or there. Of course, I can't be a true Christian if I want equal rights for "the gays," healthcare for all, or any of the other various far left (for the US) views I hold.
Note: I'm a Christian who firmly supports the separation of church and state, sooooo...
Sneaky little atheistses, always being tricksy to outsmart the omnipotent & omniscient creator and maintainer of existence itself, precious!
The government is going to force all women to have abortions to prove they’ve been faithful
You mean with a magic potion of dirty water that should not by any mechanism cause an abortion that doubled as a paternity test because God would only cause the abortion if she cheated.
Realistically this probably mostly served to cow men into accepting that their wife's child is theirs regardless of any suspicions because God said so. There's a reason being Jewish is matrilineal.
Not just dirty… the temple was meticulously maintained, so that “dust” was myrrh, which was used as incense day and night. Not surprisingly, myrrh can cause miscarriage when taken orally.
So what the scripture actually says is “If the husband is jealous, try to induce a miscarriage. If it doesn’t work, well, then it’s God’s will.”
... As a Christian, I approve.
The idea that the government should run off of some merciless view that the principles of free market capitalism dictate who eats and who doesn't is completely bizarre.
I have nothing against capitalist Christians who think that the principles of capitalism are generally fine and that, otherwise, we have an obligation as Christians to feed the poor and it just so happens to not be the role of government, but any explicitly Christian state has to feed the poor.
Obviously, he meant Maronite Christianity, which is the only^tm^ true^tm^ christianity^tm^
Jesus didn't use taxes to heal anyone. Why can't we use divine magic? It still has the benefit of being free for all; but it also works better and faster.
Well there is the New Testament story of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananias_and_Sapphira who God killed in front of everyone for not giving 100% of their money to feed the poor.
And that's relevant how? Am I Ananias in your imagination and you're God who's putting me to death for omitting the pickle? Or could it be that I am the poor because I carelessly forgot to mention it and you're witholding grace and mercy from me in the course of your attempts at corrective measures for the sake of Old Testamentarian fire and brimstone punishment?
Come on man, I know it's difficult for you Germans but at least TRY to smile for once in your life. Just imagine the pickles were always there to begin with, and it's at least a half decent joke. But whether or you like it or not, it does remain a fact that Germans call a concoction that MAINLY consists of sausage, pickles and mayo a "salad", and I think that's kinda funny (at least it is to Americans).
And just to be clear, I'm by no means knocking the dish itself, I myself was a huge enjoyer of it during the time I lived in Germany. I honestly admire the kinda of audacity it takes to make a mixture that largely consists of slices of meat and barely any veggies and have everyone agree to call it a salad. Even in a country as obsessed with meat as America is this is simply totally unheard of.
So please accept my apology if I ruffled your feathers, but you were giving such a great example of German pettiness that I couldn't resist to roast you for it. And perhaps that's also an Americanism I picked up during my time here, but that's what people do with their friends, they pull them through to cocoa as you would call it.
Even in a country as obsessed with meat as America is this is simply totally unheard of.
Never heard of crab salad? Tuna salad? Chicken salad? All of these are mainly meat, lots of mayo, and sparce non-salad vegetables, and all things Americans buy at the supermarket.
Yes, you are right of course. Although tuna and crab aren't technically meat, and those salads exist in Germany as well. At least tuna salad definitely does, except it's generally made with vinaigrette instead of mayo and might have things like bell peppers, tomatoes, or (gasp) actual lettuce in it.
But yes, the chicken salad. That certainly IS a thing (and probably the closest analogue to Fleischsalat that's available here). My bad. Seems like I can't help but offend someone, somewhere, even when I'm tried to make amends with others. Please excuse my careless oversight. I just don't eat that very often because honestly, it's not even half as good as Fleischsalat.
Why can’t we use divine magic?
Apparently, there was a balance patch that made all clerics' gods quit their interference with mortal matters.
This is funny and it makes me feel good. But you know as well as I do, that it doesn't matter what any religious text says is right or wrong. Fascism and capitalism will take control and health care will be a personal problem.
(To be fair, the Bible doesn't say you should force other people to do those things, it just says you should do them)
The meme says "force you via taxes". And Jesus Christ Himself told people to pay their taxes.
Evangelicals should be locked up in asylums. Nothing wrong with being religious if you interpret that by living your best life and helping people.
“Nothing wrong with being religious as long as it doesn’t impact your life”
Isn’t a good excuse
if you interpret that by living your best life and helping people.
Is “if you’re a good person regardless and ignore the parts I don’t like”
The person who would do that, would do that without religion
And if that person finds motivation in the possiblilty of something after death, and that brings a light to their life that they would otherwise succumb to existential dread over? Then they deserve to burn?
That's not at all what I said. For some people, the thought of oblivion leads to existential dread. It's a belief in something more that keeps them going.
Are you saying that not being able to handle that makes you a bad person?
It should be given freely, not because you were forced to. It doesnt mean anything if you were forced.
Is the point of charity to feed the hungry or to let rich people feel good about themselves?
It doesn't matter to the hungry person if the food they eat was paid for by taxes or voluntary charity. Food is food.
Ultimately to help people, but if you're forced to, that doesnt mean anything. It just means you figured paying taxes was easier than going to jail
It doesn't mean anything to whom?
Cause I bet it means a lot to the people who need food and shelter.
Uhh it means the hungry person is no longer hungry. That's pretty meaningful to the hungry person.
If you mean it doesn't mean anything to you, then that's your deal.
I'm not so sure. That smells a bit of entitlement if I'm being honest. If an unhoused person or a single parent in a food insecure household get food assistance/school meals for example, I'm sure the help meant a lot to them. It doesn't seem like it means anything to you because you have the luxury/security to worry about ethics and other more abstract things. But if you're hungry, food is food. Help is help. And if you were forced to give the food...those people still get to eat at the end of it all
It absolutely means something, it means the poor suffer less. That’s the point, not your moral absolution
It's still meaningful because it is helping people, but it's probably not going to count in your favor spiritually. Unless you're supporting getting the system set up or keeping it in place I guess.
