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I agree with the graphic.
However, I recently completed a straight watch-thru of every Simpsons episode, and while watching the lackluster episodes from seasons ~20-~30, I have to acknowledge one thing:
Quality of the show and its writing have noticeably improved since around Season 32.
The most recent episodes feel more centered on the family and much less on bizarre cameos and really outrageous situations. It actually feels like a show about the Simpson family and treats the characters more age-appropriately.
I donβt like that they lost/recast established voices of minority characters (Apu, Carl, Dr. Hibbert, etc), I do think the quality and the focus of the show is much better than it has been in almost 2-decades.
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Thank you for actually acknowledging this.
The way the Internet talks about the Simpsons is so damn annoying. The vast, vast majority of them haven't actually watched an episode and formed their own opinion on it in over a decade, they just keep repeating the same tired meme over and over again.
Long running shows have different writers coming and going, therefore quality fluctuates up and down over time. That's one of the nice things about a long running show: it gets to experiment and let new blood invigorate new life into it. There is no singular "death", there's just hills and valleys.
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You nailed it. Individual episodes are good bad and meh. I have a feeling if I was younger and exposed to the Simpsons now, I would've liked it just as much as I used to.
The constant shitting on the Simpsons needs to stop. It obviously gets good enough rating to keep on the air well over 30 years, so give it a rest.
There are plenty of bad shows on TV, the fact that its being made says nothing about its quality.
Lol, what? If you look at a list of scripted TV shows that have ran for 35+ years it's going to be dominated by shitty soap operas. You have no idea what you're talking about.
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Those shitty soap operas generally get views, and it also goes to show that a cartoon is even more rare. The Simpsons is alright, and people clearly do watch it if its still running. Hell, most good shows only get 3 to 5 seasons now if they're lucky!
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I don't count trash TV that changes often, sometimes even a different cast within the same couple of years.
Typical "technically something else is true " kind of stupid response that makes no difference to me.
All of what you say is true of brand new shows as well, with even more room to experiment. I wish the Simpsons would just die and let new shows and new ideas take its place.
Honestly, what youβve described sounds like a the Simpsons is an old, rich guy who pays young writers and artists to entertain him. Yes, he employs these people. No, I donβt think itβs anywhere even close to a good use of these economic resources. Itβs for the same reason Hollywood makes so many comic book movies instead of dramas.
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I caught some clips of a recent season and the VAs just sound so old and tired. Regardless of the current writing, just let the show end. Have the writers write for something else.
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Marge and Mr. Burns are by far the worst. Burns does t even sound like the same voice actor now
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Dude, that's over 700 episodes, most of which suck ass. Why would you do that to yourself?
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How do you know they suck ass if you haven't watched them?
Legitimately, what is it about the Internet and this show specifically where people feel compelled to sound off on something they are not actually watching, and haven't watched in years?
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Based on the graphic, people watching them think theyβre ass as well thoβ¦
Kinda the whole point of the post.
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Honestly, the scores aren't really terrible for the most part. The colors of the graphic are certainly painting it worse than it is. Dark orange is still up to a 6.7 rating, which isn't bad, and that's close to the average for the majority of the "bad" season. What hurts them the most is that the first 10 season were so good, the delta between them and after was large.
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Honestly, less than 7 on IMDB is bad.
Most average things fall between 7-8, 8+ is really good, 6 and lower is bad. So the colours actually do lineup with the score imo.
5 absolutely doesnβt mean average on IMDB. If something gets a 5 then itβs absolute dogshit.
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Not necessarily, context is pretty key on IMDb. There are plenty of shows and movies that get review bombed, especially if they're tackling a controversial subject. And nowadays, if anything has even the slightest hint of either being "woke" or alrernatively making fun of "woke" subjects, either side will come in and drop a ton of 1's, dropping the rating significantly. This happens with videogames all the time, too. The most famous example being Last of Us 2, where the game itself was really quite good (e.g. gameplay, design, pacing, etc), but because it included a trans character and a certain event at the beginning with a key character, the internet went rabid and bombed the shit out of the game at launch.
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Imdb ratings mostly range between 5-10, and 6-8 range usually has the most difference within it. Even with 'controversial' items that seems true. Not to mention Simpsons isn't that controversial of a thing
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The graphic in the post does cut off 4 seasons before the current one and also before where the top level comment mentioned writing got significantly better again.
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The graphic shows a stellar first 9 seasons, a medium next 15 seasons, and a terrible last 8 seasons... so the majority of them are medium with equal about good and bad episodes.
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Oh, I've checked in with new episodes occasionally over the years, and they were awful. Legitimately, I'm sounding off on this show because in many ways it defined my childhood. What is it with the internet that people feel compelled to sound off on someone sounding off?!
The bigger issue is that 35 seasons of the Simpsons is over 380 hours of continuous television
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Eh, I enjoy it. Iβve never stopped watching it. Even if I donβt particularly like an episode Iβm always glad I seen it.
Iβve been looking forward to that shit my whole life. Itβs gonna hurt when they do cancel it.
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The literal worst episode of Simpsons is still pretty good honestly. It's not as good as the best episodes of Simpsons, but it's still better than most TV shows.
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What's the worst episode? I think the lady gaga one used to have the lowest review score but I'm wondering if a more recent episode has taken the crown
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Actually good point, I was thinking the lady gaga episode, but I don't know if at this point that is still the lowest rated. But really, even not going by ratings and just going each persons personal opinion, the worst episode they can think of, or even while they are watching it, thinking, " this isn't a great episode". It's still better than most other stuff on tv, just not a good episode of simpsons.
Kind of like saturday night live, even the bad episodes and seasons are still a pretty good show. And easy to appreciate the effort involved.
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I distributed the watch over a long period of timeβI only ever watched episodes while on a lunch break at work. It was an effective way of unplugging and just watching something βfamiliarβ. I would typically bang out (up to) 2-episodes/day, 5-days a week over the course of about 2-years.
I just checked, and I have not watched the most recent episode, but Iβm sure I will while on lunch sometime next week.
I would argue that majority are not as bad as you imply, though some are a tough watchβlike the pointless travel shows, I recall Denmark and Canada as being a difficult watch.
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I have to agree, the recent seasons feel like they have a cohesive story and often even pull away from the 3 piece storyy telling they were doing between seasons 20-30.
I wonder if there was a new writer brought on from s32 onward who's responsible for the uptick.
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I'm not disputing that The Simpsons declined in quality, but I do kind of question the high scores for the first season or two.
I'm not a superfan or anything, but my perception of the show was that it took 3 or 4 seasons to really get good?
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You have to remember the setting...the first couple of seasons the Simpsons was a huge change from standard sitcoms in the late 80s. It got eyes on it as it grew into itself.
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I was gonna say these ratings are at least a decade removed from that context, but TIL that IMDb has been around since 1990.
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During the first 3 seasons Simpsons was animated by KlaskyCsupo, "animation executive producer" and "supervising animation director" was GΓ‘bor CsupΓ³. After he left animation style changed to more conventional.
So while the characters, writing and plotlines were not as genial as in the following seasons the animation style was much more interesting, with strange perspectives and point of views, distorted spaces, etc. Just look at this early recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LUf-GGHpuU
The twister mouth might be the most known/famous creative decision during the KlaskyCsupo seasons. After the Simpsons they worked on Duckman which feels like a series more suited to their animation style.
KlaskyCsupo also animated for Rugrats and Aaahh Real Monsters as well if those early seasons seem familiar but you can't put your finger on why.
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Here is a compilation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gPay3RUp1c
I never noticed this, it just looks like this for a few frames, but yeah, it's a strange design choice, it makes the characters look like they are made from clay or rubber.
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To get uniquely good, I'd agree, but I recently started rewatching from the start and it starts strong. At least for a start, anyways. Some cliche plot lines, but it's never JUST the main plot line so even the cliches aren't boring or lazily done.
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Fair enough - I'm not as familiar with the earliest seasons, so it was more the impression I had than a definite opinion :-)
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I was seventeen when the Simpsons became their own show. The cultural impact was enormous and immediate. By the summer of 1990, images of the Simpsons were freaking everywhere. Clothes, glasses, miscellaneous trinkets, everywhere.
So it's not really necessary for the first couple of seasons to come short against seasons three and four.
The seismic wave the show caused from its beginning were enough to garner those scores you see.
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Indeed but I'm questioning the scores themselves in S1 and S2. Put it this way, I didn't think that those seasons were considered almost as good as most the next 8, I would have expected them to be mostly in the 6.8-7.2 range.
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I don't think that's true though - these are the IMDb ratings, which remain open, and didn't exist when the episodes came out.
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It's basically the same. Here's info from the nelson TV ratings: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Simpsons_episodes
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Fair enough. As I said at the start, it was just the impression I had - evidently not the case :-)
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I'm glad you asked actually. Looking up any info is not easy. Apparently nelson TV ratings are really hard to look into these days. Even in that link I tried to follow the refrences for more info and hit a dead end pretty fast.
Also I find it interesting that they do match up with the IMDb numbers. Because your not wrong, the nostalgia is strong for those early seasons. Pretty cool is not unwarranted.
If you were around during the early 90s on Usenet you would see a lot of people talking about how Simpsons peaked in season 1. More grounded. More focused on struggling family.
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The ratings in the graph reflect this. The first couple seasons were solid 7-8 seasons. The next bunch of seasons were solid 8-9.5 seasons.
Also, seasons 1 isnβt great in hindsight. But it was still groundbreaking and probably factors into its score.
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For anyone wondering the top rated episodes here, all at 9.2 are:
S5E2 Cape Feare
S6E6 Treehouse of Horror V
S6E25 Who Shot Mr. Burns? Part One
S8E2 You Only Move Twice
And just as I was finishing that, I noticed that one episode has a 9.3, d'oh!
S8E23 Homer's Enemy
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Just want to add that nobody is talking about the decline of tv itself. Its not only the simpsons but the whole media.
Exactly. This needs to be baselined with aggregate ratings for TV or at least the genre.
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I watched the Simpsons as a kid. Never thought much about it, but Homer's Enemy is the one episode that resurfaced in my mind as an adult decades later.
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I went into ye olde Plex server to see what 8-23 is about and immediately went "yep. That tracks."
The first two sub-6.0 episodes are clip shows.
"Another Simpsons Clip Show" is the third episode of the sixth season of the American animated television series The Simpsons. It originally aired on the Fox network in the United States on September 25, 1994. In the episode, Marge reads a romance novel in bed, and it prompts her to have a family meeting, where the Simpson family recall their past loves in form of clips from previous episodes.
"All Singing, All Dancing" is the eleventh episode of the ninth season of the American animated television series The Simpsons. It originally aired on the Fox network in the United States on January 4, 1998. In the fourth Simpsons clip show, Homer claims he hates singing, so Marge shows family videos of musical numbers from previous seasons. The episode is in the form of a sung-through musical, featuring spoken dialogue only at the start and end of the episode. The original material was directed by Mark Ervin and written by Steve O'Donnell. It was executive produced by David Mirkin. It features guest appearances from George Harrison, Patrick Stewart and Phil Hartman, although these are all clips and none of them recorded original material for the episode.
Ah saved me looking up what those episodes were.
I skip them on rewatches of the earlier seasons
Yeah, if I did the work (a full minute :)) & someone else can benefit from it too it just means less net work was expended.
Also clip shows should only contain clips that never aired before, or completely new ones (like IASIP).
Yeah I agree they should be like behind the scene gags or something.
I understand they're more so the entire cast and animators can have a week off etc.
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I'm just nitpicking but why are 7.7 and 6.6 arbitrary the thresholds for the colour change? Also, why is one 6.6 red while another two are yellow?
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It appears that the colours are not on a fixed scale. The season averages and individual episodes are coloured using different ranges.
It ranges from lowest to highest regardless of the value. Like conditional formatting in Excel does if you don't specify the scale.
The seasons average ratings range from 6.1-8.4, so it goes red to green in the span of 2.3 points.
The episodes range from 3.9 to 9.3, so it goes red to green in the span of 5.4 points.
The full IMDb ratings range from 1-10. This should have been used as a basis for the colouring instead. The overall average on IMDb is somewhere around 7, so it would be fine to skew the colours so the middle/yellow was at 7, but it should be able to represent any possible ratings.
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Should probably also be acknowledged that the sample size is not going to be the same.
You're going to get a bunch of people piling in to highly rate the early episodes that they remember watching when they were kids, but a significantly lower number are going to be voting on the episodes that came later.
Really the whole premise of trying to compare and contrast the seasons for such a long running show that existed before IMDb even started is flawed on many levels.
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If the music labels are botting up Spotify playcounts, are media producers botting up IMDb ratings?
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Yes, it has been observed that IMDb sometimes get a lot of new "single post users" putting in 10/10 ratings on Disney movies that otherwise scored badly.
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I agree, almost all episodes still get a passing grade. Using 1-10 as a basis, it would paint an entirely different picture.
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I think it's fair to colour seasons and episodes with different scales because they are measuring different things.
Due to the Central Limit Theorem, average of 20+ episodes will have a smaller standard deviation than individual episodes.
For example, an individual episode with a score of 6 you'll probably watch. A whole season with a score of 6, maybe not.
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Isn't it also just because it's old and people get bored of it? People crave new things, and even if it's just as good as in the beginning, it'll get lower ratings because it's not new anymore.
I remember quite some years ago i was like "i'm finally going to watch southpark". And people were already complaining about how the latest seasons were worse than the first seasons. Watched a ton of seasons in a short period, and honestly can't say the later seasons felt any worse than the first ones when you're not bored of the series yet. Now so many years later when i watch some more southpark, it's not as fun as when i started watching it since the "it's new and exciting" feeling is long gone.
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Probably some truth to that. Also, when Simpson first came out they were quite unique. Nowadays there is a lot of edgy comic shows around.
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Comedy has changed in 31 years. So has humour in general, and so has writing.
The Simpsons is never going to be the same as it was over the seasons because that's not how culture works. Meanwhile, the reviews are mostly coming from long time viewers who lament that it's not like it "used to be".
Shows change. Get over it.
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Do they? Or are they funny TO YOU because you were part of that original audience?
If you put a kid in front of a 30 year old episode are THEY going to think its funny?
The last few seasons had a big jump in plot quality imho, with some exceptional episodes. But also yes, 10 years ago entire seasons felt comparatively bland & empty. I also feel like I would rate early seasons a bit lower today than at the time.
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Episode called "Another Simpsons Clip Show"
After reading The Bridges of Madison County, Marge decides that she and Homer need to teach the kids about romance. Each of the Simpsons (using clips from previous episodes) reminisce about past romantic encounters, leaving them all depressed and believing that love does not work. However, Homer saves the day by pointing out that one relationship has succeeded, his and Marge's.
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That indeed is interesting, had to look it up. Episode Lisa goes Gaga, Lady Gaga guest starring the episode perhaps warranted the 38% of one point ratings. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2403733/
Looks like Lady Gaga randomly popped up to boost Lisa's spirits when she became literally the least popular person at school.
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Would love to see this mapped to who the primary writers and producers are on each episode. I wonder if there are patterns.
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A very nice wave seeing the series decline... The only problem with it is it seems a little skewed to have 5.5 in strong red...
How people rate things is skewed. 5 really means there isn't anything redeemable about it.
For someone to mark below the midway point it tends to be because they are offended or upset about it. At that point a quality rating isn't appropriate, it should be 0.
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Why are you assuming that there's some uniform rating standard that every person is committing to?
That's just how humans are. The average rating is 7. If it was perfectly even it would be 5. But it isn't. We are objective or rational when we're asked to put a number to our personal opinion.
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Homer no!! That's Elon Musk! One of the world's greatest inventors!!
Actual line from the show.
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Nah that was around the time he started showing himself as being a bit of loser, but before he came out as an outright nazi.
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my pirate collection stops exactly at season 9
i guess i can now call it my "criterion collection of the simpsons yaaaar"
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I have it all because hoarding.
Iβve never watched past season 13. The last season I could get through is 12β¦
Thereβs some bangers in 10-12 though.
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my ancient hard drive used to have up to 12 i think. and you are right it was hit and miss there were a few goodies but so many bad as well
and then whatever happened with the really late seasons where the show basically became family guy i get sort of secondhand embarrassed watching
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Gods, how right you are. I stopped after 12 watching as it came out, 10-12 had some great eps but many that I was just⦠bored watching.
Iβve seen a scattered few from 13-20 and they were nigh unwatchable. Youβre totally right about the Family Guy-ication, and itβs not even early (good) Family Guy. Itβs like watching newer Spongebob, after the writer (director?) quit.
I need to watch the Gaga episode. It sounds truly awful. I donβt know if Iβm ready for that psychic damage.
The Simpsons started as a parody of the (back then) dominant family sitcom that reinforced traditional values, where the family is led by a wise man who maintains the family and everyone else follows along in a traditional patriarchal hierarchy. Once that era got buried and they swallowed the thing they were mocking, The Simpsons slowly became self-referential, which made it a much harder show to write.
Losing a point or two over decades isnt bad entropy.
If copyright protection legnth wasn't so insane, the Simpsons could be in the public domain soon (if not already) and others could take up the quest for better simpson episodes.
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I was about to say the pattern of declination is not significant.
There are other factors to consider as well. Such as the quality of the critics and audience in general.
Itβs a clip show episode musical without the normal effort they put into clip shows like the self-aware 138th episode spectacular in season 7 episode 10.
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I was a major adult fan in my twenties who worked with people who could finish a Simpsons joke when anyone started a line from the show. I remember coming in and sadly announcing that I thought I didn't like the show anymore. That was in the oughts. It had been in decline for a while at the time.
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The graph represents my experience with The Simpsons. Back when they got their movie for the 10th anniversary, the serie was already struggling with the audience. I believe that was the point where they changed the animation to a horrible 3d rendering and, at least in my country, the started having troubles negotiating with the original voices we all grew up with.
Honestly at this point I believe I haven't missed much from the series since the 9th season. They should just let it die at this point, as they should've done it in 2007.
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The movie came out in 2007, mate. Nothing to do with the 10th anniversary.
Also, you probably referred to the move from hand drawn to software animation. Because there is no "3d rendering" happening in the usual sense.
How an episode of The Simpsons is made: https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/25/9457247/the-simpsons-al-jean-interview
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Nice graph!
By the way, any reason to share this here rather than !dataisbeautiful@lemmy.world, as you did for the Boeing one? Genuinely curious
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Ahah, didn't actually expected anyone to recognize I was the same person as the Boeing graph, time to create a new throwaway account I guess π€·
I post a lot on Lemmy, mainly content I find on over social networks, and I try to avoid posting on lemmy.world, it's getting too much activity, and really hurting the decentralized aspect of Lemmy, which imo is its biggest advantage.
I'm not criticizing the mods or admins or lemmy.world, just saying that for the content I post, I try to avoid putting in there
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No worries, I'm sure most of people didn't notice.
Definitely agree on the fact that LW is a too central on Lemmy. If you want to discuss this, we created a community recently on that theme: !fedigrow@lemm.ee. Feel free to join, some discussions might interest you!