My personal experience has also been that the students who don't understand the material never say anything, fall behind to the point where they just give up because it would take too much effort to remediate, and post Rick Sanchez "school isn't for smart people" quotes on Facebook with a high school diploma.
Yep.
A major problem that people don't understand with college is that it is far more willing to let you fail compared to high school. A lot of young adults aren't used to dealing in a environment that doesn't provide immediate negative feedback on failure or non-performance. They hit one hiccup, can't come back from it, then spiral out until they flunk out.
This seems pretty unfair. I definitely remember students going to office hours, attending study groups, working with tutors.
Yes, that’s not those people. I’ve been both of these people. Quiet and ashamed me had bad grades and disappointed teachers. When I went to office hours for some reason the teachers got way nicer when I screwed up, almost like they saw me putting in effort and were happy to teach me
No, but they might easily run out of time to help one student understand if the rest of the 25 kids in the class are ready to move on.
I feel this is how half of the classes I was in went.
Let's explain to Donna why 2 + 2 = 4 even though its a pre-req. The content of the test won't be easier. I just won't cover the new material. I'll waste all my time on Donna who will end up not understanding it either way.
I had several teachers who would make a sport out of insulting students. Also in 10th grade... Coincidence?
Look at you there, having nice teachers that don't bully you in front of the class for their own personal pleasure.
I think I knew one teacher that might, but he was a bit of a nut. Listened to imus, so that tells you something
A guy I knew in school became a college professor. He'd absolutely call his students stupid. A friend of mine sent me a link to his "Rate my Professor" page and apparently his class is mostly full of people failing miserably. A load of Quality=1 and Difficulty=5 and complaints about how he makes fun of students who don't know things. The only good thing people had to say was that he had clear grading criteria.
I was having trouble with long division in school in the fifth grade. I had a piece of shit tell me 'I give up'. He did it too. For the rest of the year he ignored me. When I was in high school he was dying of cancer and the rest of the class got upset that I wouldn't donate anything or sign their card. They refused to believe he ever did that.
I love the nearly racist truth that there are clear tiers for countries and helpful YouTube content.
Are you an Electrical Engineer? You want a man of Slavic descent.
Computer scientist? Indian man.
Programmer? You want either middle east or (vaguely) American white guy.
Physics? White girl; geographic region not important. Or black American man.
Mental Health: woman either American or vaguely from geographic region of India.
Mathematics? British accent or Asian descent.
I am not sure why this pattern seems to exist, but it feels present. If you seek help on YouTube with any of these subjects I imagine you've seen it.
Like if I'm looking for an explanation on Colombs Law, I want a guy that sounds like ElectroBoom. If I need to know about Discrete Finite Automata, Ill click the first guy with a turban. If I want to know about the poincare conjecture, Im looking for snaggletooths. If I want the latest from James web, I'm looking for a ponytail or Sabine.
🤷♂️
I feel like even SEO acknowledges this prejudice.
Are you an Electrical Engineer? You want a man of Slavic descent.
But the god of all electricians is Iranian
The rest I can't argue with at all though
Iranians and Slavs are both Indo-European, which is almost what I wrote. And literally after googling ElectroBoom's accent/nationality
Well it has to do with culture/educational systems.
For example in Japan they still teach the abacus(soroban) as they see it helps visualise calculations which makes mental mathematics easier.
On the flip side Japan barely teaches spoken english and focuses mostly on written tests. So the typical japanese person can read/write english but can barely form an english sentence when speaking.
I feel called out by the electrical engineering part, I did tinker with electrical stuff ever since I was a kid and know a ton of shit about it >!(Also explains why I suck at programming but that's not the point)!<
Programmer? You want either middle east or (vaguely) American white guy.
Don't discount Scandinavians here
Indian man on YouTube put me through college 10-14 years ago. He's a real one.
It wasn't that my instructors were discouraging me or anything. Indian man just has a way of explaining things.
I tried so hard to listen but the accents are too thick sometimes. You should get a certificate for being able to understand after all that.
It starts to really sink in after about 100 hours lol
My first job out of college, I worked with a lot of Indian people. It was like I was uniquely prepared to work there.
I laughed so hard at this 😂 I grew up amongst Indians and I know every word they say. This made me laugh.
My first job taught me to understand Indian accents, and my second taught me the tiny differences between Mexican and Castilian Spanish
When I was young we had a Smith-Corona PC. It was like a suitcase.
Anyway, I had two things I could learn from - Lotus 1-2-3 and Leisure Suit Larry.
I didn’t learn spreadsheets.
Edit: add pic of Primitive portable PC preceding Passionate Patty’s play.
Lotus 1-2-3 […] I didn’t learn spreadsheets
What do you mean? Lotus 1-2-3 was a spreadsheet. It was THE spreadsheet.
Mayo uncle and the hench nephew did nothing wrong by trying to kill corona's literally backstabbing sister and I will die on this hill!
Nearly every time I've needed to learn how to get around an issue in flashing a custom ROM onto an Android device, it's been South Asian YouTubers' tutorials that saved the day.
Well, that's nice that you've never had problems. But issues I've seen over the years, range from not having certain functions working after the flash (generally needed specific firmware upgrades prior to the flash), not having the device recognized by the PC without additional steps, needing specific custom recoveries, bootloops, being stuck on splash screen, needing extra steps to unlock the bootloader (e.g. Xiaomi), not being able to easily downgrade Android version (sometimes needed as a first step prior to installing alternate OS's like Ubunu Touch), even soft bricking. Plus, in learning how to flash custom ROM's in the first place, guess who provided me with the info on how to do it.
I guess I was lucky with my mi 11 lite, but i wasn't lucky with the hardware working. Well the 2017 redmi is way better anyway.
Teachers: "We're doing the best we can. It's all the parents' fault for raising these no-learning-ass little monsters. We've tried literally everything, and there is NOTHING WE COULD POSSIBLY DO to rescue the nation from this nightmare of continually stupider people. None of it is our fault, and if you even think about suggesting that we should be held accountable for our job performance, you are actually evil."
Also teachers: "If you kicked us an extra twenty or thirty grand per year, you'd really start to see a lot of improvement."
I mean, it is probably easier to teach when you have adequate funds for supplies, and are paid a wage where you don’t have to hold down an extra job to make ends meet, having more attention and energy for teaching. One would think at least
That's true. And I was exaggerating for effect. But the fact remains that you can't have it both ways.
Either you're doing everything that can be done, and nothing can help these little shits to learn OR you need more money, and that would fix the problem.
Pick one of those messages. Not both. Both things can't be true.
EDIT: Please do pick the "we need more money" message. It's actionable, at least. I'm all for raising taxes on the top 25 percent wealthy motherfuckers and putting a lot of that dough into education and directly into teachers' salaries.
We should at least try that. See if it works. The other message is just "the kids are dumb. The parents are bad. We're all screwed. Always kiss teachers' asses, though, whenever you see them."
Honestly, I don't think I've heard the former all that much, at least outside the context of the latter.
So yes, you can have it both ways because one influences the other. Provided you can see in more than one dimension.
Honestly, I don’t think I’ve heard the former all that much
I've usually heard it in the context of teachers bristling at any notion that they should be graded on the results that they achieve, in their jobs.
When someone suggests ANY level of accountability, based on outcomes, the teachers will start screaming and crying, about how there's nothing that they could do any differently, they're already doing their best, and nothing is their fault. So it would be incredibly unfair and downright villainous to even consider evaluating their job performance.
Well, if that's the case, then it shouldn't be possible to buy better results. ARE they holding back and underperforming, as a form of industrial action? If so, that's kind of a dick move, from the perspective of the kids that are being under-taught. Also, if that's what they're doing, then they need to be more direct in explaining the situation.
If they literally said "we COULD do better, but you pay us like shit, so we're not really trying. You get what you pay for," I would respect that.
But nobody wants to say that. They want to be regarded as valiant, heroic martyrs, constantly struggling to do their absolute best, but ALSO they would totally take that extra green, if someone offered it.
the teachers will start screaming and crying
You know, and I know this is completely anecdotal, but I don't think I've ever seen people use a description like that except when they're trying to dismiss the opinions of others. It puts the complaint on an emotional level rather than a rational one, as though it's not worth consideration.
One can also do their best, but still not be up to par simply because they don't have the resources available. If the teacher/student ratios are too high, so they can't address all issues necessary. If they don't have the physical resources available to provide adequate education, out-of-date or just poorly made textbooks, or the resources they do have are politicized to the degree that they can only teach misinformation without risking their job.
And I think our experience with standardization is a perfect example for why they might be reticent to accept evaluations as a way to determine effectiveness. If those evaluations don't take into account the previous things I mentioned, talented and capable teachers may get the axe through no fault of their own.
Not to mention... maybe you're just seeing a vocal minority. Of people who aren't capable and just don't want to lose their safe job. That doesn't necessarily reflect teachers as a whole.
And finally... while we are a capitalist society, and thus money is the (no longer) gold standard by which we measure success... just throwing money at something doesn't necessarily fix it. It needs to go hand in hand with proper procedures, regulations, and a flexibility of contextual awareness over global standardization. Yes, money will help, but it's no where near the only thing. It's just the easiest to look at and say "We did a thing!" and "The thing doesn't work, it's someone else's fault now!"
If the teacher/student ratios are too high, so they can’t address all issues necessary. If they don’t have the physical resources available to provide adequate education, out-of-date or just poorly made textbooks, or the resources they do have are politicized to the degree that they can only teach misinformation without risking their job.
This is where the argument always shifts. But it STARTS with "I personally need a bigger salary."
And I don't even disagree. Teachers should be making at LEAST twice the money they make. Take the money from the fucking sports programs at the state colleges and funnel that shit directly to the workaday teachers. But I think it's weird that you try to wriggle away from the discussion about actual teacher pay. Be open about it. It seems weird, otherwise.
why they might be reticent to accept evaluations as a way to determine effectiveness
You mean like literally every other job? There are basically four jobs in modern, industrialized society, where you're able to skate by and never be evaluated on your effectiveness: cops, nurses, politicians, and teachers.
And all four of those groups are CONSTANTLY HANGING THEMSELVES UP ON THEIR CROSSES OF MARTYRDOM, BECAUSE "OOOOOHHH, NOOOOO, THE PEOPLE DON'T ACCEPT OUR EXCUSES FOR BEING SHITTY, EVEN WHEN WE'RE SHITTY!"
Not that we, the rest of the people, can actually DO anything about them being shitty. You can't get any of the people in those protected groups fired, for basically any performance-related reason.
As a person who has only ever been on the receiving end of nursing, law enforcement, politics, and teaching, believe me: I have encountered plenty of shitty people in all those professions. But none of the people who actually work in those categories are ever subjected to the kind of performance-based, results-based evaluations that all the rest of us simply have to expect, in our lives.
Every other job involves results-based performance reviews. If you get bad results, you can get demoted, get penalized, or get fired. Even if you have reasonable excuses for your failures. The only exception would be if you work for yourself. But then you're subject to the actual market. If you do a shitty job, people won't want to use your products or services.
But, again, if you're a cop, a nurse, a teacher, or a politician, you don't have to worry. As long as you play the politics correctly, your failures don't matter. You'll be shielded from them, as long as you're in good standing with your peers.
I'm not happy about that, and I don't think I should be.
Every other job involves results-based performance reviews. If you get bad results, you can get demoted, get penalized, or get fired.
And those metrics are also often bullshit made up by middle managers to make themselves look good.
I dont disagree that we should hold basic services like that to a higher standard... but especially with teachers (and nurses) they need a hell of a lot more support before its going to be an effective way to cull the whiners.
And just because you've had a few bad experiences doesn't mean that the entire professions are rotten to the core. Seems to me you're doing just as much bitching (probably more) as the people you're bitching about.
Both can be true. Teachers can be doing everything they humanly can with the constraints and budgets they're given by the people in charge, whether it is public or private schools. They're still people who need food, water, shelter and clothing, and so many teachers pay for the supplies they need with their own money, cutting into their ability to afford basic necessities.
Having more money available to pay for teacher's aides, and for the necessary supplies would remove a lot of the burden and barriers teachers face when actually teaching.
many teachers pay for the supplies they need with their own money
They just shouldn't do that. It should be actually illegal to do that. I really mean that.
Imagine if this shit was going on, in the construction industry. Imagine if we got into a situation, where the people who hire construction contractors refused to pay for enough building materials, and then the contractors refused to pay for those materials, and then the actual construction workers started bringing in steel and concrete, from home.
That would be BEYOND STUPID. Nobody would do that. But if they DID ever do that, it would completely destroy the economy, and basically make sure that no buildings could ever be built or repaired.
Rather than telling the people at large that they need their asses kissed, the response should be to tell the districts: "well, I ran out of supplies, so I couldn't teach." If that functionally means a strike, then so be it. It is ethically problematic, because of the actual futures of the actual kids involved...but it should have been dealt with sharply and directly, all along.
Instead, teachers are coddling governments and middle managers by taking the burden onto themselves. I know it's easier said than done, but they need to start saying "no," rather than saying "please help me, out of the kindness of your hearts."
Then the children would get worse education than they already get, it would be years until the pressure got enough to actually change anything in the administration, and then longer for it to have any effect on the funding that schools recieve from the government.
It's not some problem that can just be hand waved away because they should have handled it better in the first place or something. This shit has measurable effects on outcomes for the rest of a person's life.
The issue is that the consequences of any strong action from the teachers disproportionally effects the students, with little to no direct effect on the people that would need to be involved with improving the situation.
But sure, go off on how teachers are failing students by stretching themselves thin trying to keep students from being screwed over.
Same shit as telling schools to stop blowing absurd amounts of money on sports: it's not nearly so simple. A lot of that money comes to the schools in ways (grants, etc) that legally obligates them to use it for sports and not where it would be more effective.
But no, the true reason things suck couldn't possibly be because shit is fucking complicated. Everyone is just too dumb or cowardly to do things the way you identified as the solution.
I sincerely hope you grow to understand that most shit like this wouldn't be a problem in the first place if any old layperson's "hot take" idea could actually solve it. People are stupid, but not that fucking stupid.
It’s not some problem that can just be hand waved away because they should have handled it better in the first place or something
Nah, I think it was EXACTLY like that. That's where I was going, with my analogy about the construction industry. If the construction workers started being asked to bring in concrete and steel for the jobs, out of their own pay, THEY WOULD BE INCREDIBLY STUPID TO START DOING IT.
They should refuse, immediately. They should absolutely nip that shit in the bud. Never give it any chance to become a massive problem.
Imagine if every teacher had said "nope, we don't do that," the first time they didn't have enough supplies in their classrooms, and someone started making throat-clearing noises, implying that they could just bring that shit from home. If they had all showed solidarity with each other, from the start, things would be very different.
Now, of course, the practices are ingrained. It has been normalized.
It WAS a mistake for teachers to allow that shit. The problem is massively more difficult to solve, now.