https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/16/23835191/lenovo-legion-go-leaked-images-steam-deck-competitor
It apparently has removable controllers.
Back in 2015 or so Lenovo was pre-installing superfish spyware on some systems. Whether this was an accident or intentional is up for interpretation. Whether 8 years is enough to earn back trust is up to you. Personally I re-image anything that's mine because I don't need the vendor's bloat that just does the same things windows already does. I don't really use windows much anyway these days for my personal machines but I'm probably not going to buy anything from Lenovo any time soon.
It wasn't just preinstalling malware. It was also installing malware stored in the firmware into fresh Windows installs.
Yeah, i remember it being pretty bad and fighting with my boss at the time because they were all in with lenovo. Even after I showed them the articles about the malware they wanted us to push out lenovo's bloat on all machines (like the stupid battery monitor) because they liked how it looked better. I got a new job shortly after.
Not to mention the Lenovo Service Engine rootkit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo#Lenovo_Service_Engine
If it’s not running Linux could one not just… install Linux? I wouldn’t be surprised if drivers were out before long.
Power management on laptop-like devices is a problem for Linux because of lazy manufacturers. ACPI often reports broken values and h/w vendors patch it up using Windows driver overrides, rather than a real fix. Suspend/resume is a delicately choreographed set of steps given to the OS by ACPI so if that's wrong, you'll get awful battery life or worse, crashes. Linux devs will emulate the Windows driver patches but that comes later, if at all.
I mean, hopefully it would work but Lenovo would need to not take the easy way out. They've been slipping, even with their Thinkpads lately.
Since its a all in one device couldn't the community just come up with a fix for the power management?
Yes, but things like that take time. So yeah: Six months after the device is released there will probably be fantastic Linux support. Until then it'll be hit or miss from an "annoying fucking bugs" and "where'd my battery life go?" perspective.
This is why it's always better when a device manufacturer supports Linux right out of the gate. Not only does that give the device vastly more capabilities it also helps Windows by ensuring that the hardware doesn't require all sorts of wacky ACPI workarounds and custom software be developed in order to do things like check the temperature or battery capacity (things that Lenovo has made absurdly proprietary in the past).
I think most people now when looking at portable gaming devices like these want a seamless experience (like with the Steamdeck)
Windows has proven to be problematic with these devices, where when you use the Steamdeck it's pretty much pick up and play. The ROG ally uses Windows + it's own armory crate software and from what I've heard it's been pretty hit or miss
The problem is that if it ships with Windows then you are paying for a Windows license that you won't be using.
Hopefully they dont make the same mistake ASUS did. The fanciest hardware in the world won't help if the software doesn't work out of the box.
Steam Deck got so much right, straight out of the gate. The suspend-resume is nothing short of amazing. The UI is 100% muscle, 0% fat.
IMO, starting with Windows as a base is an automatic setback. There's a strong chance that it'll interrupt your game to ask you if you want to set Edge to be your default browser or some stupid shit.
IMO, starting with Windows as a base is an automatic setback. There's a strong chance that it'll interrupt your game to ask you if you want to set Edge to be your default browser or some stupid shit.
Ugh I can imagine that thing rebooting for an update the second you pause a game to go do something
I get this place is very pro-Linux, but come on. 30+ years of using Windows here, it's never done anything like that.
It was a bit tongue in cheek but since Win10, there's more "nervous laughter" in the room than there was before.
You've never had Windows insist on installing updates at an inconvenient time? Come on! You're obviously not using Windows that much.
Also, it's not just Windows that does this. Every HP thing (the PC, their printers, accessories, etc) seems to require a bazillion background services and one gigantic background app that just loves to pop up and interrupt everything you're doing at the worst times. Multiply that by any number of other devices with proprietary management daemons running in the background, managing their own updates (because even to this day Windows doesn't have a universal package manager that keeps all software up to date).
This is how it's going to go:
It's the Windows way!
Ypu missed 'the update breaks your machine, and you lose a day reinstalling everything'
(because I bet a gaming machine doesn't use something like snapshots to roll back before the damage).
Wow, you ok there? Like I said, no, that's never happened to me. I've had the PC self-update during off-peak hours i.e. when I was sleeping, but otherwise it's usually an update initiated by me.
The fact you took this time to initiate this flight of fantasy on something that's never happened to me on any Windows portable means your hate of an OS has taken on some unhealthy levels. Take a chill pill.
Windows continuously harasses me to upgrade to windows 11 with full screen nags (having to find the little "go away" button, why there's not a single "no fuck off forever" button isn't shown is beyond me)
I can definitely understand the frustration at windows given how it chooses to act sometimes
Disable TPM in your BIOS. Windows 11 will suddenly be “unsupported” and won’t pester you to upgrade.
I don't really like the design of those joy-cons clones. From the images it feels they could snap out from the screen if you put too much pressure. Maybe I am wrong though, I should test it.
For sure. I just wish someone would make a device that has control parity with the steam deck.
When I first got used to the steam controller, it was the best I'd ever used. Valve managed to improve upon it with the Index and Deck. I hate gaming at a friend's house and having to go back to what amounts to a standard controller these days.
The Pimax Portal uses magnetic snap-on controllers and the reviews tend to be pretty positive on it.
I’m excited for this new PC/Console hybrid market to start becoming something big. Hardware competition will drive progress up and prices down while openiNg access to games to many. I do really hone the market lands on Linux as their main OS instead of Windows11.
Valve has the resources to hack Proton to make things work, others just want an OS they know will already run Windows games without much fuss. Valve specifically wants to move away from Windows because of fears of anticompetitive behavior from Microsoft. They're not just doing it from the goodness of their hearts. Microsoft would like nothing more than the Steam store crushed and all its games moved to their own walled garden.
Lenovo has fucktons of resources to do this sort of thing. Probably more than Valve!
Not only that but I guarantee that Lenovo probably has 10x more Linux engineers and developers than Valve working for them full-time, right now.
They should just work together to get steamos on this thing. After getting used to my deck, I never want to game on windows again.
A big reason to move away from Microsoft is also lack of licensing fees, which the other companies can definitely get behind. They'd have to make their own store and front end most likely, but proton is basically all done for them and is already in a shippable state that "just works" for users.
Because it's much easier than making their own Linux version.
Valve learned their lesson from the steam machines and isn't just working with 3rd parties with steamos.
I dream that one day this joke will not be funny because Windows will actually be a Linux distro.
It looks sick. I actually have no problem that it's thicker if that means that the battery life is longer (although weight is a concern over thickness, of course). Lenovo hardware is hit and miss though (and I say this having used a Legion laptop for the past few years).
Also, Steam Deck will still remain king until the other companies can make a good track record of consistent software improvements which are needed on a device like this. I see all of these other clones - the Ally, the 50000 Aya devices - and I still am not tempted until I know that they will be supported long term. I really think that this support sets the tone for these devices - is this market going to be a 'it's a year old and already outdated so I'll just buy a new one' kind of thing? Or will it be 'this is good for a quite a few years and I'm happy with my purchase and not immediately getting fomo'? I really hope it's the latter.
Another thing is that, and maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't Nintendo patent some part of the detachable controller design that scared companies from doing anything similar for a long time? I could have sworn that was happening for quite a while...
Support, community and quick resume will keep me from straying from my Steam deck for a while. I don't see any competitors beating Steam deck in anything but hardware for a while.
I think the even bigger advantage Valve has is the business model.
I don't know how much the Deck costs Valve to manufacture. And yes, it's pretty easy to run non-Steam games. But the bottom line is that the Deck does not have to be a profit center for Valve, it just has to drive more sales on Steam without losing too much money. Logitech, Lenovo, Asus, etc have to make money off of the hardware.
Support is important, but being a PC, you can get that from 3rd party solutions like ChimeraOS
I am someone who mods every console that I have. I even mod https://lemmy.world/c/linuxcracksupport here. But fiddling with the Deck can be very tedious and tiring. It's like modding a game - you'll spend hours getting it right, only for your will to play the game be gone.
I've even taken to not doing beta updates anymore on the Deck because the uncertainy that they cause just gets into my playtime. It somewhat ruins the concept of the Deck, which is 'pick up for a few minutes and play' in my mind.
Could some sort of dual boot be an option? Have a clean version of the OS that boots by default for the quick gaming sessions, then a modded version for when you feel like playing with the console itself. When your tweaks are solid, copy them to the gaming version.
I don't know enough about the Steam Deck or modding to know if it's plausible though.
Unless drivers are available not really. This is all specialized APU stuff. Valve chose AMD on purpose and had a deal with them to improve drivers AMD was already open sourcing and developing for Linux community. If they chose some Windows only hardware you won't have much luck with Steam Deck. It might work but then performance will suffer.
My wallet would support Steam if it had any sort of bills in it. Lenovo is a lousy company in the gadgets market. I own a marvelous Yoga Tab 3 Pro with an Intel Atom CPU and a built-in projector. An expensive device that received the one clunky Android upgrade and no source code. I modded the firmware enough to make it still usable, but God, do I hate their "support" service. Good riddance!
The product designer for this needs to be fired. Anyone who’s held a controller for an extended period of time knows these hard corners will kill your hands.
Same with any product designer who releases a phone with sharp edges just because it looks clean.
It doesn't even look good when they do that.. it looks like they couldn't be bothered.
I had a phone like that for under a week, sent it back. It was so uncomfortable to hold.
Phones are a slightly different story. Edges do help grip, and ensure product stability (which is essential on a phone). Additionally their smaller form factor means ergonomics don’t come into play as much as a game controller.
Will say it's an interesting idea to put a scroll wheel on the back of the right grip. On the deck and steam controller I'd sometimes use track pads to just be scroll wheels, but sometimes I wish there was just a physical tactile scroll wheel instead.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Based on the images, Lenovo’s take on a PC gaming handheld looks a lot like devices such as the Steam Deck and Asus ROG Ally, but it also has a lot in common with the Nintendo Switch.
According to Windows Report, the Legion Go has an eight-inch screen, images show two Joy-Con-like controllers that can be removed, and it even appears to have a wide Switch OLED-like kickstand that you can pop out for tabletop gaming.
The Legion Go’s controllers appear to be a blend of the Switch’s flat but removable Joy-Cons and the Steam Deck’s contoured but attached grips.
Perhaps the most important takeaway from these apparent images of the device (there are more, and you can see them all at Windows Report) is that Lenovo isn’t shying away from making the Legion Go thick.
Asus steered away from thickness and heft with the ROG Ally, which wound up with middling battery life, but we’re beginning to see portables like the upcoming Ayaneo Kun pointed towards beefier batteries.
Lenovo has dabbled with handheld gaming devices in the past, showing the “LaVie Mini” concept in partnership with NEC at CES 2021 and building an unreleased Android-based device called the Legion Play.
I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Do you remember Lenovo getting into the smartphone business ? I bet they are going for a redo this time again. they are known for having commitment issues
Em... Lenovo is still big in the smartphone business, they are just all Motorola branded now.
That's not what happened... Lenovo didn't have a smartphone business until Google sold the remains of Motorola to them, so Lenovo and Zuk branded phones actually came AFTER Motorola by Lenovo.
Once again the consumer electronics industry proving that it has essentially zero imagination.
Those who want a Steam Deck can probably just buy a Steam Deck. Or a Switch. 13.2% faster processor, 8.3% more colors, 9% faster refresh... all those endless specs don't speak to me, which is all any company can do if they are just copying some existing design.
How about different form factors? I think the idea of a Steam Deck is great, but I hate how bulky it is. I am willing to sacrifice CPU power and even screen size for something a little more pocketable. Something in a portrait orientation rather landscape, maybe.
Like seeing the competition. I got the Rog Ally right now and loving it. Not sure I would want the joy cons type form factor though that might make portability easier.
Maybe they had a patent on their mechanism. This looks like the controllers may magnetically lock in rather than be slid on.
That's...worrying. Considering they're going to be the main holding points for a handheld games console.
There were singular units that can also house the phone like the Backbone One, but there were no units that connected physically to the phone via rails like the Nintendo Switch (and this Lenovo device, apparently) does.
Those types of controllers work very differently and thus are not affected by Nintendo's patent.
I hope not, because the potential for systems like this is great.
Imagine it with an open faced dock below your TV, but the console screen is running a mini map, for example. It could show your inventory or missions and side quests in adventure games.
If it's a touch screen, a long display cable could let it be a part of the game. Building things or making potions could be done on it by dragging and dropping, or stirring with your finger.
It feels like there's a lot of possibilities, but nobody's trying them out yet.
I'm sure there are ways around the Nintendo patent :) and yes I imagine stuff like this would be great for DS/WiiU emulation.
Why do these people design the control interfaces without giving thought to it that if it's for PC gaming, mouse cursor control is paramount? While this has a touchpad, the position look like it's an afterthought. And doubly so if it's going to run on Windows on a small screen; touch is just about doable on a 12" Surface Pro screen, I can't imagine going smaller than 10".
I kinda dig it. I have comically large hands so the big chunky controllers appeal to me. Don't think I'd ever use them detached but if there's a connector thing like for joycons I can see it working.