https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/peter-moore-last-console-generation
"Why do I need to spend four or 500 bucks on a bespoke piece of gaming hardware when I've got my smartphone, or I got my PC or my Mac?"
Smartphones were supposed to kill off portable consoles and for a brief moment they did. It took 2-3 years until people realized dedicated hardware was so much better and Switch happened to launch at perfect time.
Well, we've now got Steam Deck turning your portable console into a full PC, just connect a keyboard. Also no need to buy a Steam Deck version of that game you bought on Steam ten years ago, it's already there and probably runs great.
It might be that proprietary, single purpose gaming portables are going to lose to more flexible portables even if smartphones are too limited to do the job.
Also no need to buy a Steam Deck version of that game you bought on Steam ten years ago, it’s already there and probably runs great.
Android could have had this same advantage too, but Google's now pushing this whole framework version check thing.
There's also the fact the mobile gaming industry worked hard to make it an ad riddled, predatory monetisation & whalebait laden skinner box hellscape.
I don't deny there's a few gems mixed into the dogshit, which is a shame because I'm not going digging for it.
::: spoiler long response sorry
I think smartphones could have done a massive amount of damage to consoles and ultimately will occupy a large section of gaming as they should.
This has been forgotten and it shouldn’t, but mobile gaming really wasn’t a business movement to transfer existing video game development practices to a mobile environment, it was a business movement to apply corporate business practices to gaming. Mobile gaming wasn’t ever given a fair chance because there has always been a huge headwind of money shaping the mobile gaming industry into the toxic shithole it is.
Not to mention the Apple and (more so) Google app stores have never valued creating reliable game suggestions and review databases that people actually trusted. Neither has either company given a shit about encouraging a cottage industry of mobile game critics, instead they have pretended like people are seriously going to keep looking for new games through the recommendations of an algorithm that is so obviously tuned to spit out crap and point you at the same old couple of popular slot machine microtransaction games over and over again.
If you forget all that nonsense though and take a look at games like Call Of Duty Mobile, Farlight 84 and Pubg Newstate, touchscreen interfaces are getting extremely good for shooters and many mobile players have gotten extremely good at creating custom arrangements of buttons so they can use three or four fingers to play almost competitively as the average mouse and keyboard player (farrrr better than a controller player without gyro).
Games like Call Of Duty Mobile and the now maddeningly defunct Apex Legends Mobile also allow the use of a controller hooked up via Bluetooth to your phone. Using an xbox x/s controller and the PowerA Moga gaming clip 2 you can mount your phone on your controller in a very sturdy fashion. You can then turn gyro input on your phone on too (which is normally for touchscreen users directly holding their phone). In this way I was able to aim in Apex Legends Mobile without auto-aim far more competitively than someone playing normal Apex Legends on console could do with a controller and no gyro even if they had auto-aim turned on.
This clip only costs about $17, so that with a used Xbox x/s controller for let’s say $35 gets you the ability to comfortably play Wreckfest on your phone anywhere in your house with your phones beautiful AMOLED screen at a close enough distance to give you a high fidelity viewing experience. The clip also easily pops off and can be stored in a pocket.
You can’t argue the potential of mobile gaming especially if people continue to buy phones with fairly powerful processors and high quality screens. Sure I love gaming on a computer or a console, but those cost money and most people only need to drop <$50 on some peripherals to game with their phone. I game on a steamdeck and I am satisfied with that right now but in many ways the balance of my phone in a moga clip was better and anyways everybody already has a phone so it was dead easy to wrangle friends in on actually good mobile games.
The problem is all the business/corporate bros in mobile gaming are keeping the industry from innovating or really even just replicating the experience of normal gaming because they have been hellbent on enshittifying mobile gaming from the start.
We would ALL own Diablo Mobile if it was actually a phenomenal Diablo game that we could play with any friends we wanted and was satisfying to control on mobile. Blizzard just catastrophically shit the bed and made people feel icky for participating in this corporatization of gaming.
:::
Made a comment in another thread the other day, but as a gamesir x2 pro owner the telescopic controllers are really good now too.
I got the USBC one so no input delay or battery to recharge, cost me $100AUD, built solid and there are mod guides out there now (I'm gonna add a 30mm fan or two to keep my phone cool it can get a bit hot under heavy load.
Isn’t it amazing this capability was basically right there from the beginning of mobile gaming?
It really shows badly corporate business practices utterly destroyed the ability of mobile gaming to innovate and improve as a medium for years and years. We might as well be almost 10 years behind where we should be in the evolution of the mobile gaming scene and it is honestly appalling.
I am so glad we have options like your gamesir x2! I use an Xbox controller just because I already had one, actually for awhile I was using a wired Xbox 360 controller which would sometimes work for games that weren’t even designed with controller input because compatibility is so good with 360 controllers lol.
How do you like the joysticks and buttons on the gamesir?
The pro is the one to get I'll tell you, unless you have a Z-Fold, in which case get the X2C (I think) that just released, that one's got the port on the left, meaning when unfolded it sits with the screen unfolded upwards.
The standard X2 has buttons for the triggers, pro has travel. The joysticks aren't hall effect on mine iirc, but they're very accurate and it's surprisingly comfortable. You can also swap the ABXY around as they're magnetic button caps, and they're held in so well I need pliers to pull em. Only issue I've got is left on the D-pad is a little finicky and it makes combos a bit difficult at times on some games.
You can mod the X2 pro so it stretches out and fits a 10/11" tablet but it'll stretch the springs out, or add fans if your phone gets a bit hot like mine under heavy load (I'll likely be adding a 30mm fan or two).
I give it a 9/10, -1 for D-pad jank.
It's just not the same market, might as well say that smartphones are killing tabletop gaming. DS lifetime sales were 155m, Switch is at something like 140m and still going. There's not that much room for growth probably but smartphone gaming is saturated as well.
The comment about killing a market came from you; phones are, as I said, the most popular device for gaming. Likening video gaming to tabletop gaming is silly and irrelevant; phones can and do play the same games which consoles do, board games are not the same market or sphere.
Billions use their phones for games, the Switch accounts for over a hundred million consoles, which are essentially large phones/tablets with controllers. It depends what you mean about dedicated hardware, as there are phones which are more powerful. If it's based on the controllers, sure, although there are also pads which can connect to mobile devices to make them into little consoles in themselves.
I'm not sure what you mean by smartphone gaming saturation; in terms of how many phones have been sold and who has them? I guess. But the market for mobile games is absolutely huge because of how many exist, so you have a potential market of billions rather than millions.
What I'm saying this is not "this or this" dilemma so the whole premise that one unrelated market is going to snuff out another is a fallacy.
Mobile space is a completly different to any kind of PC or console gaming. It's not about buttons, it's the whole thing. You can't get into hardware because profit margins are laughable. You can't compete with Google or Apple on market commission because they have a monopoly. You can't do AAA games because positioning and advertising is a tossup. You're left with trying to get another gacha game which is akin to trying to do another live service game on traditional platforms and we all know how predictable this business is.
I've used portable consoles as an example because years ago argument that they'd be replaced by smartphones had some merit. We now know that was kinda dumb. To replace Xboxes and Playstation you'd have to have tech that's just not there yet and won't be there for the foreseeable future (vast majority of people play FIFA, CoD, Fortnite etc so lag just kills it). People who could put up with deficiencies of streaming are likely not the same ones that game on existing hardware. There will be people who will jump on it if it grows but for different types of experiences, creating new market segment.
Mobile space is a completly different to any kind of PC or console gaming
I agree that it's not a drop-in replacement, but there are definitely games that come out on both mobile and PC/console. There's definitely some level of overlap.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloons_TD_6
Platform(s)
- Android
- iOS
- macOS
- Microsoft Windows
- visionOS
- Xbox One
- Xbox Series X/S
I don't know what the percentage in terms of game revenue is there. But there is definitely some overlap there.
Yeah, casual games definitely benefit from being on mobile. That group of players barely needed PCs in the first place and was likely first to switch to smartphones and tablets where touch control scheme makes much more sense. Publishers benefit from more streamlined in-app purchases there too so even if the sales volume was similar, overall revenue will definitely favor mobile platforms.
Well no, as there are plenty of MOBA and similar games on mobile that work just fine; lag is really not an issue.
I have showed you Death Stranding and showed the capability of phones. Your waffling on (and continued downvotes), and saying that Apple and Google have a monopoly (uhh what?) when they are direct competitors is hilarious. They are walled gardens in a way, but less so than consoles. Android allows any store or software to be installed.
Portable consoles have been replaced by smartphones, the DS and PS handhelds are dead. Stick to a point or concede.
Yes, DS sales were, and now it's dead. The Switch is Nintendo's only console yet has not picked up the slack. It should be doing Wii + DS numbers, not under the latter.
If anything we should be comparing DS+PSP numbers but then again it'll never be apples to apples comparison. Nintendo DS was a phenomenon just as Switch is, which is why I used it for the example.
I can't believe we're talking about this again. Feels like every five years or so, some industry has-been wants to talk about phones changing gaming.
Last year was one of the best for games in recent years, all of which I wouldn't want to play on my phone.
Wake up, Touchscreens aren't ideal, it's just convenient. The market is bigger than just people wanting to play on the phone.
EDIT I reread and think my rant isn't really applicable to this, but I'll leave up how I feel anyway.
exactly, touchscreens are only good because they take no extra space and are terrible in every other way
What the world needs right now is Steam boxes. Just build a $500 PC, slap Steam OS on it and you're done. The ecosystem is already there. I really don't understand why nobody has done this.
They did try this a while back, steam machines were around at 2015. I could see it getting a rebirth in a similar design to the steam deck in a few years though.
Steam OS and big picture weren't very mature yet at the time. I think now that the Deck has proven the UX, they could definitely revisit this idea. And I pray that they do because it could mean more Steam controllers on the market
Yes, I'm aware of that. But the software just wasn't there at the time. But now it definitely is.
Have you been living under a rock for the past three years? Have you heard of the Steam Deck?
Which is a device that combines the downsides of an UMPC and a handheld game console?
I have.
But you've obviously never used one. Maybe you should try to see beyond your preconceived notions.
I have it sucks. What do you want me to say?
It is expensive to buy, it is not especially well built, has a display from 2009, has specs from about 2013, has fans so you cant leave it on a bed turned on, it takes up insane space, honestly more than a laptop because of the stupid shape, needs a case, because it doesn't fold like a laptop or a nintendo DS, the matte screen is only for the top of the line one which is taking the piss.
The software it runs, for better or for worse is linux... Some games work, some don't. There. What should I have missed?
Edit: The battery life is poor.
Maybe you should approach it with more realistic expectations? It does what it does really well but I guess you can't please everyone.
Edit: Oh and I just checked: they go for pretty high prices on eBay. So if it's so terrible, you can just get rid of it.
Can you build something like that for the same price as a higher end console? These consoles are designed to be loss leaders so it's hard to beat if you just focus on the hardware price.
Yes you can. You can build a PC with a RX7600 CPU for about $600. That's about in the same performance ballpark as a PS5. If you mass produce those and trim down some features, you'll be able to hit $500. And you won't have to pay the Microsoft tax. Sadly, this is also why it's not happening. I'm 100% sure MS are furiously working behind the scenes to prevent anyone from coming out with a system like this.
Though, caveat, the PS5 has been out for a few years. At the time it was introduced, I imagine it would have been more competitive.
Also, I don't think that the term @nanoUFO@sh.itjust.works is looking for is "loss leader". I believe that he's referring to the fact that the console is sold at a loss, while the console vendor -- who has monopoly control over the platform -- forces game prices up and extracts some of the money that game developers make. That's a different pricing strategy from use of a "loss leader" albeit with certain similarities; in the "loss leader" strategy, purchase of the sold-below-cost item isn't normally tied directly to sale of other products. I'd call this the razor-and-blades pricing strategy:
googles
Yeah. Wikipedia even uses console video game pricing as an explicit example in the first paragraph, including mentioning the distinction from a loss-leader strategy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor_and_blades_model
The razor and blades business model[1] is a business model in which one item is sold at a low price (or given away for free) in order to increase sales of a complementary good, such as consumable supplies. It is different from loss leader marketing and free sample marketing, which do not depend on complementary products or services. Common examples of the razor and blades model include inkjet printers whose ink cartridges are significantly marked up in price, coffee machines that use single-use coffee pods, electric toothbrushes, and video game consoles which require additional purchases to obtain accessories and software not included in the original package.[1]
Personally, I don't really want to play games on my television.
But I'm probably not really representative.
I think that the bigger issue is that a console has to be absolutely idiot-proof. You can't have troubleshooting or tweaking or anything. Put game in, it works, fully and completely. You can't go screw up the system by misconfiguring it.
Windows PCs aren't really there -- if they were, people would use Windows PCs, not consoles. Adding Proton to the mix -- since a lot of Steam games are Windows binaries -- adds another layer of complexity to that.
If you go to ProtonDB and every single game had a Platinum rating, which they do not, that's still not enough. That means that you have something on the level of Windows, which still doesn't meet the bar for a lot of people who use consoles.
EDIT: Well, okay, to be fair, Steam does provide a certain limited amount of best-effort isolation between games when using Proton by having a different WINE prefix for each installed game, so that's arguably one way in which Steam+Proton is closer to the "appliance" model than a simple Windows PC.
I don't mean to say that this is for everyone. But they sold a couple of million Steam Decks and I'd bet there's a market for a couple of tens of millions of these boxes. And I'm not talking Windows here but Steam OS (or some derivative). That's based on Linux but you'll never notice unless you want to. For most people it's just a store and a launcher. While maybe not quite as easy to use as a console, it's certainly doable for the average gamer.
I'm a millennial, and the last pc I owned was around the left 4 dead 2 era. Consoles are doing ridiculously well right now, as is pc, everything is flourishing. anecdotal remarks don't mean much.
Are they? The Switch is, but the Xbox is doing okay, and the PS5 quite well, nothing that great though.
Yes, yes, they are. The Xbox should be in the absolute gutter with microsofts decisions over the past decade. The fact that it exists at all is a testament to how strong consoles are these days.
The switch is doing great. The ps5 is doing great. The Xbox still exists even though the Xbox One happened, and this is all in the face of the pc platform doing great.
Platform loyalty isn't so big, Nintendo dropped the ball previously then knocked it out of the park (twice), Sony messed up the PS3... There are simply more people and different avenues for revenue, and higher profit margins. I wouldn't say the PS5 is doing great.
Do you own a PC?
Do you think you're a gamer?
If the answer is No, and Yes. Then that's interesting otherwise, it's nothing new.
I had a Ps4, and A Xbox One. Now I game on PC. Honestly I'm sick of modern games so I mostly retro game, but a PC is a gaming "console" in that respect.
Same lol. I still own DS and 3DS for emergencies though. If I were to buy a console now it would be Steam Deck, but then it's not really a console is it.
Hey that's not a bad idea actually... I could live in a hole in the ground IRL, just like my first night in Minecraft!
There's always living with your parents and saving up money if you can
If you don't have that option avalible but have a way of getting money then you could look into bicycle campers or vanlife
But honestly fuck the exploitative capitalist system that causes homelessness in the first place
Did they realize consoles were nothing more than cheap PCs? That PC gaming gives more flexibility and freedom than a walled garden?
I haven't owned a console in years and don't care to own one.
Do you realize the difference is that a console will generally give a known quality and they usually just work without tweaking and tinkering? You don't have to research compatibility, drivers, USB versions, or any of a hundred other tiny things.
I have a gaming PC, steam deck, and a couple of mini PCs so that I can stream games across the house and play what I want in any room. It's much more plug and play than it used to be, which is why I don't feel the need to get a console. But not everyone wants to do more than plug in, update, and play.
Do you realize the difference is that a console will generally give a known quality and they usually just work without tweaking and tinkering?
The problem with this argument is that it only applies to PCs that you buy and build from off the shelf parts like any other computer you get where everything can be different. It does not apply to a pre-built console type PC manufactured using a custom IC pre-configured operating system dedicated to run games in a console-like experience, where every single one of those models are the same, especially in a case like the steam deck where it's made by the same manufacturer.
But not everyone wants to do more than plug in, update, and play.
Pretty sure you don't need to if all you want to do is play games, a good majority of games work out of the box already. Maybe it wasn't the case in the beginning when proton was younger (which is where this mentality comes from) but it certainly does now.
Edit: Hmm Downvote with no response, that plus your username tells me all I need to know. Have fun.
This guy seems to be full of takes that sound like theyre really, really bad. Only time will truly tell, but I feel pretty confident in saying that whatever this guy says is probably mostly incorrect.
Well, he was an exec at SEGA before the Dreamcast was killed, so I mean... Maybe youre onto something...
SEGA was floundering as early as the SEGA CD and the Saturn was a failure. Everything considered the Dreamcast did OK.
While that may be technically true the overlap between phone games and console/PC games is no minute as to make them effectively two seperate markets. At its best phone gaming conists of people running DOS box on their phone and playing DOOM with a bluetooth mouse, at its worst phone gaming is a bunch of shovel ware gache trash appealing to the lowest common denominator.
The reason why phone gaming will never take over the computer/console market is because it is just absolutely filled with shit, also phone are just too underpowered and clunky when it comes to controls.
At its best phone gaming conists of people running DOS box on their phone and playing DOOM with a bunch bluetooth mouse, at its worst phone gaming is a bunch of shovel ware gache trash appealing to the lowest common denominator.
To put it bluntly, your whole comment shows you have zero clue about the mobile gaming market, how big it is, the overlap, and what people are actually playing.
The reason why phone gaming will never take over the computer/console market is because it is just absolutely filled with shit, also phone are just too underpowered and clunky when it comes to controls.
Absolutely not. There are a lot of naff games, as there are on consoles, but a shitload of games which have brought out hugely competitive scenes. The mobile gaming market has already taken over the handheld scene; yes, the Switch is popular, however people game on phones in far bigger numbers. League of Legends on Android alone has over 50m downloads (not sure the exact number), plus Apple downloads and it's more than any Switch game. There are multiple games with these numbers, and far from clunky.
"Underpowered" is a joke; we've had powerful gaming phones for a fair few years now, many are more powerful than a Switch yet they aren't good enough in your eyes? My phone (not a gaming one, just a Pixel) plays Dreamcast games better than my Dreamcast did, and whatever else I've thrown at it.
I put games like bubg, fortnite, and league of legends in the exploitative trash category, im aware theyre on phone I just dont respect them to begin. Also that is the small area of overlap I mentioned. As for how big it is, I dont particularly care, my point was that the mobile market and traditional gaming market are effectively two different markets with little overlap. Also downloads mean nothing, give me actual fucken player numbers cause in my opinion downloads mean nothing since you can download a game and never play it my steam library for example.
As for the Switch I dont really care if modern tech outstrips it its getting a bit old, seriously I would hope a piece of tech that was released in 2017 was being outstripped by newer stuff.
And yes I do mean underpowered, even the most advanced phone will pale in comparison to anything bigger than it from overheat alone. The battery is right on the rest of the electronics meaning as the battery and electronics run they heat eachother up and start to lose performance, add on passive cooling and you end up with a distinct loss of performance. If you know of a phone with a cooling fan on the back let me know id love to have it.
And yeah id fucken hope a modern phone of decent quality could run the games of a 25 year old console better than the console itself. If ya want to impress me when it comes to your phones power run Warhammer total war III, Resident Evil 4 Remake, or even Crusader Kings 2 hell ill give ya bonus points if ya can run it with the Geheimnisnacht mod.
You can go find player numbers if you like, there are a tonne of people playing multiplayer games online on their phones all the time, more than anything else.
Whether you respect them or not matters not one bit to anyone else.
First you say phones are underpowered, now you say they should be more powerful than a Switch because of the age... take your pick, don't hop between at your convenience.
What are you on about with batteries? The Switch is the same, the battery is next to everything else inside as it's just a tablet. Like the Switch, gaming phones have fans too. What are modern phones paling in comparison to exactly? Passive cooling of what? Phones have fans, like my Redmagic.
The Dreamcast is what I've been emulating as it's my favourite console; it emulates at a much higher resolution. Feel free to check out what other emulation it can do, as I know it can do some Switch stuff.
Not that I need to impress you, but how about Death Stranding? https://apps.apple.com/us/app/death-stranding-directors-cut/id6449748961
And all the MOBAs which run smooth as.
Heard this two generations straight already.
Maybe PCs. IF Microsoft brings out a cheap and form factor PC instead of a Xbox whatever they call it. And that'd be a good thing. Besides, a Xbox Series X and a PC is about the same thing except less configuration on the console, and that's fine... Microsoft still makes games, they just bring it to PC as well as their console. We should applaud that.
But no, Consoles and PCs will be in gaming as long as people buy millions of them, and the good news is they don't buy millions, they buy HUNDREDS of millions.
And Gen Z continue to buy them too. Because GenZ is 22-38. I hate the phrase but I feel like "OK Boomer" is actually appropriate here.