•

House Passes Bill to Force TikTok Sale From Chinese Owner or Ban the App

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/13/technology/tiktok-ban-house-vote.html

The legislation received wide bipartisan support, with both Republicans and Democrats showing an eagerness to appear tough on China.

House Passes Bill to Force TikTok Sale From Chinese Owner or Ban the App

The House on Wednesday passed a bill with broad bipartisan support that would force TikTok’s Chinese owner to either sell the hugely popular video app or be banned in the United States.

Republican leaders fast-tracked the bill through the House with limited debate, and it passed on a lopsided vote of 352-65, reflecting widespread backing for legislation that would take direct aim at China in an election year.

101 comments

radix

•

Sketchy Chinese data brokers: 👎
Sketchy US data brokers:👍

Signed, Congress.

KoalaUnknown

•

The Chinese data brokers don’t “gift” congresspersons “campaign funds”.

Jaysyn

•

They quite literally are. Just not enough to pay for the influence liability that Tik Tok is.

Kbobabob

•

Does that mean it's just the Russian ones that do?

KoalaUnknown

•

Russian apps got banned with this bill too.

Maggoty

•

What Russian apps?

There's only one app impacted by this. It's unconstitutional on it's face by being a bill of attainder in every way except actually including the name.

KoalaUnknown

•

The bill restricts apps from China, Russian, Iran, & North Korea. It is not just about TikTok.

Maggoty

•

Oh yes the famous Russian and North Korean Social Media apps in the US.

This is a Bill of Attainder in everything but naming TikTok in the bill. Even if it passes judicial review it will not achieve what you guys think it will. The CCP will just buy the data and run targeted ads through X, FB, and Google. But foreign propaganda is okay as long as a wealthy American profits right?

EdibleFriend

•

lol yep. we constantly talk about how horrible tik tok is but the US government who is, of course, a much bigger threat to US citizens is doing the exact same thing.

zelifcam

•

radix

•

It would arguably take less effort to write a more general ban on apps and companies sharing, selling, and aggregating data on users than one specifically carving out foreign-owned companies.

Not doing that makes it clear this isn't a "first step." This is a blanket approval of the practice, but with "election year, China bad" thrown in.

Yes, any government access to user data can, and will, be mis-used, including Tik Tok. Opposing this bill isn't an approval of Bytedance, it's an opposition to the process.

zelifcam

•

Viking_Hippie

•

I simply don’t agree that kind of power is more acceptable in the hands of a country like China

Nobody said that Tiktok is more acceptable, just that the American ones that are given free rein are just as unacceptable.

Come to think of it, though, the American ones are a bigger threat, simply by virtue of spying on a larger userbase than Tiktok currently has.

And if you think the likes of Facebook, Twitter and Google aren't beholden to foreign governments such as the ones of India, Israel and yes China too, just because they're headquartered in the US, you clearly don't know much about how they operate.

zelifcam

•

Maggoty

•

No. Because that's not how politics works. This will be sold as a solved problem and the second you try to lobby to ban Facebook from selling data and ad space to the CCP the line will suddenly be about government interference in business.

Swallowing bullshit like this is part and parcel of corporate governance.

zelifcam

•

echo64

•

I would argue that this is the opposite order. You want to take care of the people who actually hold power over you now, China has no power over you.

Look at what the eu has done. First control and regulate the local companies.

zelifcam

•

echo64

•

Just at the cost of setting up the American version of china's firewall, right?

It's going to be weird for the rest of the world to have access to tiktok, but just America bans their citizens from accessing it. America really just isn't so far from what it hates.

It's also strange to see people championing a path towards this, it's all good until they decide to ban the thing you don't hate though right?

zelifcam

•

echo64

•

Sir, this is a discussion platform. People leave text to have a discussion.

if you don't want to, that's okay. You don't have to continue. Just don't reply, you don't need to leave a message like that, that's just weird

EdibleFriend

•

in the meantime STOP USING these companies products.

Can you share this list? I didn't know we had a definitive answer on everything to avoid that the united states government is using to spy on its citizens. Not sure how I missed that, its kinda big news that we got something that definitive.

zelifcam

•

EdibleFriend

•

Dude...you are the one saying thats part of the answer. So...help us. You have the knowledge of what to avoid. Share please?

zelifcam

•

EdibleFriend

•

You're an angry little thing, you know that? I was discussing how the US government is spying on us at all times and you came along and said 'just stop using the things they spy on you with.' How was I supposed to know you didn't actually mean all spying? Just the tiny fraction of spying that is done through facebook?

Why are you so angry and defensive?

EdibleFriend

•

So you don’t agree with me? You think making sarcastic comments is the path forward? You seriously take time out of your day to start shit with a stranger on the internet who simply suggests we have the ability to try to change things for the better in this country?

Responding to the edit you made after I replied. I asked you for further information on how to do this and its lead to quite a bit of anger and hostility from you dude. I haven't insulted you. I have shown no anger. But you say I'm the one starting shit?

trolololol

•

Yep but they're more powerful and more selfish.

avidamoeba

•

Makes sense. They can control one and can't control the other.

trolololol

•

They ~~can control~~ are controlled by these and can't control the other.

Fixed that for you

Cheems

•

I don't think they'll actually control either.

SkyNTP

•

Shutting down TikTok on US soil for 99% of people is trivial to execute and sufficiently effective.

Daft_ish

•

If China wants my private data they are going to have to buy it from a third party like everybody else!

SeaJ

•

Straight up using Chinese tactics of forcing a company to be majority domestic owned.

QuaternionsRock

•

The legality of foreign ownership should absolutely be bilateral. I don’t get why this wasn’t the policy from the start.

WanderingVentra

•

Because that's "communism". America has gone after countless countries for preventing foreign ownership of goods and services.

turkishdelight

•

Uncle Sam is upset that they can't spy on you. Uncle Sam wants you to use Instagram.

Corkyskog

•

Uncle Sam wants to get his fingers into that sweet, sweet algorithm.

dtjones

•

Israel (at least in large part) is why they're pushing the tiktok ban now. It is a little hard to connect the dots on this because the China-reasoning seems strong on the surface. I agree that China is bad, but there has not been any stellar evidence to show that China censors or otherwise manipulates users on the platform. You can easily go to tiktok and find videos discussing how awful the Chinese government is, information about tiananmen square, Winnie the Pooh jokes, etc. In comparison, the data that came out of the Facebook and Cambridge Analytica scandal was far more concrete, and Congress did nothing. Certainly there were not 81% of house members coming together to force Facebook to sell. Tiktok has even offered to make major concessions about data privacy.

Israel's war in Gaza is deeply unpopular and the fascists in Israel and here in the US are concerned that they are losing popularity. Tiktok has 100+ million active users in the US and the heaviest anti-Israel sentiment (the government and the US's relationship with the Israeli government, not the Israeli/Jewish people) is heaviest on Tiktok, which is dominated by young millennials and gen Z. This is leaked audio of the director of the anti-defamation league (a very pro-Israel organization) speaking about this. He basically tells his audience that they have a "major major major... problem" and specifically says that they have a "tiktok problem and a gen Z problem." Listen to the audio- you can agree or not with his reasoning, but he's essentially saying that the spread of ideas on tiktok is causing their polling issues.

People like this want to stop the spread of ideas on tiktok because young people are organizing, boycotting, and putting dents in the system. They do not like that young voters are having a larger and larger influence. These young people are also boycotting major companies like McDonalds and Starbucks who have taken pro-Israel stances, and these companies have lost profits from this. All this to say - I don't think there is any lack of motivation by people with lots of money to destroy the platform where these people are organizing.

It is incredible how much money Israel pumps into our politicians, both Democrats and Republicans. Joe Biden himself is the largest recipient of this money. There are anti-BDS laws (specifically for Israel) in 37 states. I don't think many people are aware of just how much influence Israel has in the US. It is surprising and disturbing, but I am equally surprised/disturbed at how little attention these topics have received on Lemmy of all places. I don't think it takes a genius to start making these connections and to start asking questions - maybe this isn't the full picture but there is a lot of stuff here to be skeptical about. That said, I absolutely do think this kind of information is suppressed on other platforms, and they want to suppress all of tiktok because it's dangerous to them.

kromem

•

I don't think it takes a genius to start making these connections and to start asking questions

That's correct.

Jan 2023 - EXPLAINER: List of states banning TikTok grows

Jan 2023 - These Colleges Just Banned TikTok

_number8_

•

can't believe people's insanely smug reaction to this. the government is banning an app that 100+ million americans use and presumably enjoy. that is insane, full stop.

fustigation769curtain

•

This is how bad the trade war and propaganda has gotten.

I have no hope for this nation or the useful idiots that inhabit it.

FenrirIII

•

The government also bans drugs, guns, alcohol, smoking, etc. They ban things that are perceived threats to health and safety. It's what they should be doing.

That being said, wasting their time on TikTok is fucking stupid.

huginn

•

Ah yes. Banning alcohol.

That went really well.

Ah yes. Banning drugs.

That's going really well.

douglasg14b

•

Nothing you're saying is arguing the point...

huginn

•

I think it's a pretty succinct argument against government bands on vice

echo64

•

They aren't banning a thing, they are banning a kind of a thing.

If they were banning social media you may have a point, they aren't.

afraid_of_zombies

•

Government bans drugs to imprison POC.

Government doesn't ban guns unless POC own them. If you are white you get a license to kill.

Government doesn't ban alcohol a century ago it banned poor people from having it safely.

Government never banned smoking. It makes them too much money.

Stop pretending that they give a shit. If they did we would have like freaken free fruit a veg stands on every block and cars would be speed limited.

zipzoopaboop

•

Land of the free

BaardFigur

•

Maggoty

•

It's also unconstitutional. But when's the last time anyone heard the words, "Bill of Attainder"? There's a fairly good chance TikTok takes this to court and wins.

QuaternionsRock

•

Does the Constitution apply to foreign companies? I thought it doesn’t even apply to non-residents that are not on U.S. soil.

Maggoty

•

It lays out the powers of our government. And it specifically says Congress can't pass a Bill of Attainder.

AnyProgressIsGood

•

It's not like there's no reason to it. Don't be so dramatic. You can waste time on YouTube shorts, Instagram, snapchat etc...

Rather not have genocidal dictatorships programming us

NoIWontPickAName

•

Do you live in the us?

Maggoty

•

So pass a bill banning that. And punish all data vendors when they break it, instead of unconstitutionally targeting one of them.

reverendsteveii

•

and wouldn't you know it, a former US government functionary is the head of a group ready to buy it!

This isn't about protecting people from propaganda and data mining, it's about making sure that only people in the pocket of the American establishment get to manipulate us.

LucidNightmare

•

EDIT: Since it seems like some people lost the plot of my comment, somehow…

TLDR: Government sector in USA has 81% of the people in charge agreeing to ban an app, while there are kids being told they are too poor to afford to eat at a building that is mandated by the government to be there.

People dying from overpriced medicine and care? Nothing we can do!

People starving from companies overpricing their shit quality food? Nothing we can do!

People paying more taxes than companies, while those same companies pay little to NO taxes, while raking in "record breaking profits!!!" Nothing we can do!

Some app that allows the people to talk to each other, and to band together, about how shitty our situation is? An app that allows people to voice their issues of our government, freely, while attaining thousands and millions of views with like-minded people who are also sick of their government fucking them every step they can? BAN IT! QUICKLY EVERYONE, BAN IT BEFORE THEY REALIZE WE'RE COMPLICIT WITH EACH OTHER IN CONSTANTLY FUCKING OVER THOSE STUPID PEASANTS!

Seriously, guys. Can you think of the last time we had 81% of our house actively working together to help the people? I sure can't.

laverabe

•

The ban is a good thing because China is an autocracy. Freedom of thought is not acceptable there, otherwise you wouldn't know what I mean when I say the great firewall of China. Their influence is already vast.

The US isn't a beacon of democracy, but the distance between a flawed democracy and an authoritarian regime is massive. The US Congress is largely ineffective, but this is one thing they've gotten right.

TikTok, the popular Chinese-owned social network, instructs its moderators to censor videos that mention Tiananmen Square, Tibetan independence, or the banned religious group Falun Gong, according to leaked documents detailing the site’s moderation guidelines.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing

Raiderkev

•

They have banned all US based social media, so honestly, why TF do we allow theirs? I get that it sounds xenophobic to an extent to ban an app because of the country it's based in, but I 1000% would not be surprised if China is using this to find kompromat on US citizens and playing the long game to recruit spies / gather sensitive information. The app has the most permissions of any social media app and they are gathering a shit ton of data.

LucidNightmare

•

I completely disagree with your reasoning. As I have stated above, all that I've ever been shown is some funny videos sure, but MOSTLY average people like myself who are constantly fucked by those above us all and voice their opinions, freely, on the app. I finally have an app where people aren't posting pictures of their selves trying to pretend they're happy. I finally have an app where I can hear others who think about the systemic injustices constantly bombarding us in this digital era.

It's quite funny you say they got this one right, but they also allow censoring of our "news" stations here, and the content that is on american social medias. you do see that, right? So, it's okay in your eyes, for a foreign app to be banned, but no restrictions for the apps that american companies deploy that also have a narrative to push? you don't think this could've been a SWEEPING bill that includes ALL social medias? Why just this one? It has been proven that Russia and Chinese bot farms are swamping Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Why is this not something they care about? Truly, I want to hear this from you.

Why do you think they want to ban this ONE app? To prevent data from leaking out? What data homie? Millions of people crying out to each other that their system is rigged against them?

Are you insane?

laverabe

•

I never said the bill was perfect. It is a good first step. Ideally all social media should be held accountable, but they are the ones who make political donations, so the chances of major overhaul are not all that great.

They want to ban Chinese ownership of the company because it's politically popular, but it does also have merit. China can and will exert it's influence to it's advantage.

Tiktok might be a good service right now (...debatable) but it's threat comes from being able to push China's authoritarian agenda.

And insults have no place in reasonable discussion. Who's mind are you going to change by calling them insane?

LucidNightmare

•

Nothing has to be perfect. It just has to work, and mostly work for the people. When it comes to laws, that is.

Now, let me understand you clearly. You still think that banning some silly little app, where probably in your opinion (since I take it you don’t use it for the “debatable” part) it’s just a bunch of people doing challenges or dancing or whatever silly shit you have in your mind of what’s on there, but you don’t seriously think there are just a little more important shit going on right now than some stupid app, who’s only authoritarian reach on me in the last 4 years is the stupid ads paid for by the shitty companies here in America, like KIDS being told that since they can’t afford to pay for their lunch, they don’t get to EAT!?

And you’re worried about a fucking APP?!

Holy. Fuck.

NoIWontPickAName

•

You seem awfully worried about it too

LucidNightmare

•

I am. Thank you for noticing.

It’s batshit crazy the people in charge are more worried about a fucking APP than people going hungry.

Do you not think it’s insane that a majority of the house voted for something so stupid, but they can’t even agree on wether or not a child should have to pay to eat at a building they are mandated to be at by said government…?

I suggest you reread my original comment. I added a TLDR for people like you who somehow lost the plot of the comment.

NoIWontPickAName

•

Meh

fuckingkangaroos

•

LucidNightmare

•

Ah yes. The classic let me try to frame this in a stupid fucking way to try and sound like I have an argument. How original.

Nice try, but asking someone if they are insane because their views are so outlandish as to have the thought that banning a fucking APP is more important than any of the three reasons I put on my comment.

So, do you have any actual thoughts on the above matters? If not, kindly fuck off and have a great day.

fuckingkangaroos

•

Didn't even read it.

LucidNightmare

•

Great!

So fuck off, and have a great day.

assassin_aragorn

•

Ehhh I don't know about that. I've seen plenty of posts dunking on China for being stupid, and they're quite popular.

LucidNightmare

•

And to just further point out, because it seems like you ignored the first three sentences of my post, you're fine with our government banding together for this singular app (lmfao) but NOT banding together to actually help the common people? What???

You don't think their priority should be the former, and THEN we can worry about this stupid fucking foreign app?

You ARE insane!

EatATaco

•

You had me until the conspiracy theory about them banning it because it allows people to talk to each. I mean, fuck, there are plenty of other ways for us to do that that are effectively equally as popular.

LucidNightmare

•

I don’t understand where you’re getting hung up on the talking to each other part. It’s not some conspiracy? I was describing the app in its form.

Short video sometimes long video, frustrated person talking about how insane it is to experience the shit we are experiencing here in the states, I agree with frustrated person, I go to comments, I see a great many others who recount their shit experiences, don’t take them all at face value because that would be stupid, but realize that I am not alone in wanting shit to go back to reality. I want actual adults, leading the world, doing the right things. Everyone likes to sit here and talk about complex issues like that means it’s impossible to fucking solve. I can’t believe we have come to this point.

EatATaco

•

I'm not getting hung up on anything, the implication that this is a conspiracy to shut down the ability of people to communicate is the clear implication, and essentially the crux of the point.

LucidNightmare

•

Right…

I suggest you read the original comment again….

I added a TLDR for people like you who lost the plot…

EatATaco

•

I clearly responded to your full comment because I said I was with you until the conspiracy nonsense. The point of (paraphrased) "They won't help kids, but they'll sure shut down an app that allows us to talk to each other about how bad they are!" is clearly the intent of this legislation is not to protect, but oppress. But it doesn't make sense considering all of the other ways we have to communicate where I see people complaining about how things are.

LucidNightmare

•

TLDR: You should be upset these fucks are spending our tax money on banning an app, instead of using our tax money on more important shit like people living in the streets, kids going hungry in schools, kids being sent to work at the age of 12+, and medical debt being an inch away from us all. You should all be as upset as I am. The fact you aren’t, is very very concerning.

I truly do not care about the app that much.

You’re right. It is one of the many forms we have to communicate with each other.

My main comment point was that they are banning some silly little app instead of addressing way more important things.

It’s insane that they are banding together for the first time in years (besides when they want to increase their paychecks!) where there unanimous backing from both sides.

That’s all my comment was trying to get across.

You have people cheering that these fucks have banded together to get an app banned, but they can’t even agree to feed children.

“Yeah! I HATE TikTok, this is GOOD news!” But refuse to look at ALL the other issues going on that should definitely be a way higher priority than some stupid app.

That’s the main point. There’s no hidden conspiracy to find. It’s the fact we care so much about banning an app, but not about more important shit like feeding our fellow citizens and making sure our children are cared for properly.

Insane. It’s just insane to me we’re fine with our government spending our taxes and shit on this.

EatATaco

•

There’s no hidden conspiracy to find.

Then you shouldn't have included it as part of your post because it undercuts and detracts from your actual point.

But, yes, I wish we would do more important things, but there seems to be good reason to ban this app, it's no real loss if it disappears, and Republicans are not going to want to help children, so I don't see what the point is in getting so upset over this.

aggelalex

•

There we go. China wants everything to themselves, and America follows suit. Global economy gets split up, and global gdp falls to the ground. But worry not, the aristocrats will only see themselves stay in power over the stagnant masses.

Zehzin

•

YaksDC

•

This they could agree on?!

autotldr

•

This is the best summary I could come up with:

The House on Wednesday passed a bill with broad bipartisan support that would force TikTok’s Chinese owner to either sell the hugely popular video app or be banned in the United States.

The action came despite TikTok’s efforts to mobilize its 170 million U.S. users against the measure, and amid the Biden administration’s push to persuade lawmakers that Chinese ownership of the platform poses grave national security risks to the United States.

When the bill was introduced, a National Security Council spokesman quickly called the legislation “an important and welcome step to address” the threat of technology that imperils Americans’ sensitive data.

The administration has repeatedly sent national security officials to Capitol Hill to privately make the case for the legislation and offer dire warnings on the risks of TikTok’s current ownership.

The latest bill has been viewed as something of a last stand against the company for Mr. Gallagher, who recently said he would not run for a fifth term because “the framers intended citizens to serve in Congress for a season and then return to their private lives.”

The original article contains 1,325 words, the summary contains 216 words. Saved 84%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

BurningnnTree

•

I don't understand the argument that this limits free speech. Anything that people post on Tik Tok can also be posted on competing social media sites. How is free speech affected by this?

echo64

•

It's funny that the only app being banned, is the app that young people used to have a dramatic effect on American politics recently, first by blocking the red wave, then by tanking democratic polling thanks to their support for genocide.

It's funny that Twitter or Facebook, which is absolutely full of outside influence on America, isn't banned. The Russian and Chinese bot networks can live forever there, that's fine.

SkyNTP

•

Silly of you to assume that that is about end user's free speech and not the "free speech" of a company to release a product to market.

In all seriousness, I think hostile foreign governments have an interest in destabilizing the public discourse of other countries. I get the memes comparing data collection between TikTok and American tech firms. But the fact remains that the US government can reign in foreign influence of domestic social media, where as it has absolutely no control over foreign social media. The fact that border protection never extended to the digital space is in hindsight kind of strange. It's also completely asinine to expect any sort of free speech on a platform subject to an authoritarian government.

Maggoty

•

That's not true at all. If we make a law about content on social media then TikTok would need to abide by that just the same as domestic companies.

Linkerbaan

•

Because American sites don't show it to their audiences.

And literally ban it.

There's a reason TikTok is far more Pro Palestinian than Facebook or Twitter.

AnyProgressIsGood

•

Also it's as free as China allows. The delusion of freedom is laughabley absurd

NoLifeGaming

•

Why yes of course. Can't have people seeing whats going on in Palestine.

Jaysyn

•

Good.

PoliticallyIncorrect

•

Fucking racists..

afraid_of_zombies

•

My rep is a Democrat, I won't vote Republican next election but I won't vote for my rep again. I don't even use Tik Tok.

NoIWontPickAName

•

Careful now, if you don’t fall in line and VBNMW they don’t like it here

afraid_of_zombies

•

Fuck anyone who tries to tell me how to vote. I am highly unlikely to ever vote GOP again but if the Democrat representing me doesn't do what I want I won't vote for them.

Gigan

•

Cool. Now do it with other Chinese owned companies

GreatDong3000

•

It is already done. They are calling it TikTok bill as propaganda, in reality this bill is not specific against TikTok but to ANY APP/WEBSITE that has at least 20% ownsership from ANYONE which resides or has business headquartered in CHINA, RUSSIA, IRAN or NORTH KOREA *

* The list of countries is of course subject to future expansion.

Bricriu

•

What's Reddit's Tencent ownership percent?

GreatDong3000

•

11%

Maggoty

•

Right. Sure. And there's no war in Ba Sing Se. It's not called the TikTok bill because it's going to affect hundreds of companies.

AnyProgressIsGood

•

That's a good list. I like it. Propaganda clearly works best we do something

ArmoredThirteen

•

Restricting how people interact is not how you combat propaganda. It's how to set the stage for internal, more tightly controlled propaganda...

Linkerbaan

•

Free speech unless you criticize israel. That's literally illegal.

America is a dictatorship.

assassin_aragorn

•

Just want to point out that you criticize Israel plenty on here without anyone arresting you or trying to shut down Lemmy. It isn't literally illegal nor even the case.

recapitated

•

Seriously. The original commenter is ostensibly concerned about an entire population that is facing a literal existential threat from violence by another state, and then claiming that he himself is somehow victimized and can't talk about it in the USA, give me a fucking break. Guy needs to get over himself.

jumjummy

•

People like that complain about the lack of free speech, then in the same breath praise China, a country that will literally disappear you if you step out of line.

recapitated

•

In my personal experience I haven't really heard or seen Americans from any common viewpoint praising China, but maybe I'm just in a fortunate bubble.

_number8_

•

and it's not even a functional dictatorship; meaningful bills get held up in the wheels of power for ages and ages, but they have the will to pass this grossly authoritarian bullshit within a week. sick.