Leto II mentioned that Paul also saw the Golden Path, but was too weak to implement it and instead went into the desert as the Preacher. It wasn't mentioned that worm transformation was required for the Golden Path to succeed, but it gave Leto longevity to oversee it.
What I'm trying to say is that Paul likely thought about transforming into the worm.
My interpretation agrees with you. I suppose it's possible he only saw the thousands of years of being a tyrant and was rejecting that. But I still think he saw the worm transformation.
Major Dune spoilers:
Isn't that pretty explicit in Children? Leto II frequently chastises his genetic memory father/actual father for being a coward to afraid to commit to the golden path. Paul saw where the golden path led and couldn't do it so he becomes the Preacher whereas Leto saw what was needed to guide humanity and thus sacrificed his to become The Tyrant
When the preacher saw leto fused with the sand worms he said something to the effect of "so you've chosen that path". Which more than slightly implies he did see the worm part
So really this should one of those distribution graph memes where most people in the middle are crying saying it was Leto II while the extreme ends (very dumb and very smart) are saying it's Paul
It’s really getting to me how many people are memeing Paul turning into a worm.
It feels like it’s a fact that was misinterpreted from one of those “7 CRAZY Things that Happen in the DUNE Novels - You’ll never believe number 6!” Videos. But because they haven’t read the books, they assume it must be Paul that worms out because he’s the Main Character, right?
Little do people know the real main character of the saga died in the first act of the first book.
I haven't seen any of the movies or YT videos, but read the series years ago. Honestly, I forgot until reading this thread that it wasn't Paul. Are you sure it wasn't Paul....? I might have to re read. I do remember stopping at that book because I felt like the worming out thing was jumping the shark.
Paul's son is the God Emperor, not Paul. Paul's reign was actually pretty short, all things considered.
I didn't overly enjoy book 4 myself but 5 and 6 were better. Opinions on this are quite divided on this though
oh same with my dad. He remembered it has paul turned into the worm but no it was his child
Or maybe people aren't all stupid, and just make vaguely related dune memes that still are a bit humorous? It's not like there are movie adaptations of god emperor of dune.
Also, even disregarding God Emperor, the joke still works, the fremen literally worship sandworms
Well, technically the meme does not say he'll actually do it. And as Paul had to option to go down that road, but choose not to, it's not truly incorrect.
I could swear that he was the one... but also I never even consider reading the books and all my knowledge comes from YT videos and podcasts lol
Sorry but that's not accurate. It is definitely his son. There's evidence Paul considers it but Leto II is the one who actually merges with the worms
What if I were a dirty hobo philosopher who shows up unexpected in like 20 years?
It was weird when the sand puppies merged into the worm. It was less weird when thousands of years later they were like… nah, we out.
The weird part is absolutely "a lot of sand puppies biting this dude's arms at the same time somehow turns them and him into an immortal worm." With that context, "they stop being a worm by not biting him anymore" makes perfect sense.
You skipped a generation. Let's wait and see who they cast as Leto II and Ghanima for Children Of Dune... if they get there at all.
Weird fashion style to have your nose hair braided to your hair, I think you should shave it tho
Become a worm, to do what your father was too scared to. Rule as a tyrant for three thousand years to fundamentally shake shit up and keep shit shook up. Die. Shit comes back as if nothing ever happened.
(I haven’t read Heretics and ChapterHouse for a while)
I think the last coming back was a Brian Herbert thing because Frank spent too much time beating his children and not enough telling them that Paul is actually a bad guy.
I haven’t read Hunters or Sandworms. They sit on my bookshelf in pristine condition. One day I’ll hold my nose and dive in.
Should we tell them about that time every major character gets reborn as a child clone thousands of years later so they can be chased by 2 beings, one of which is named Marty?
No, not yet? Ok....
This is an absolutely outstanding meme my good fellow hear hear well done and jolly good show what
"I can control genital temperature."
"Layla had her orgasm."
Seriously, Frank and George must've been friends at some point (Lucas or R. R. Martin, take your pick, they're both pervs lol)
God Emperor has a lot of super cringey stuff in it. This is, imo, the worst. In addition to being cringey, it is maybe some of the worst writing I have ever seen.
Basically, Duncan Idaho is climbing this like 3km tall wall for reasons that I won't get into while Nayla (who is one of Leto II's weird mutant fanatical female bodyguards/soldiers who he orders to have sex with his enemies/allies for political reasons) gets progressively hornier, saying things like "[if Duncan climbs that wall] I think I'll have an orgasm". This goes on for a whole chapter. Like 30+ pages of this iirc. Then Duncan finishes climbing the wall and Hugo and Nebula award winning author Frank Herbert ends this weird horny fanfic of a chapter with "And then Nayla had her orgasm". The whole thing is ridiculously gratuitous, serves almost no purpose, and drags on in a book that already seriously needed to be edited.
I once asked my wife if Jason Momoa could make a woman come just by climbing a mountain. They said yes, so I guess he was perfectly cast.
A bit shit? Mate I had many long painful arguments about the quality of God Emperor back in the day on Usenet, alt.something.something.dune, The lengths people went to defend it made me realise it’s not just a bit shit, it’s a lot shit, but maybe, deliberately so.
Is it perverted to imagine it and unnecessarily put it into a story though? She wasn't a real person having an orgasm, Dune is fiction lol
Have you read the book? It was fuckin weird and didn't fit. It felt like a teenage boy writing out his fantasy.
Women having orgasms isn't a problem, that's not what this was about lmao
The female orgasm is a myth. I'm going to get my girlfriend to myth on my face later.
I'm pretty sure I've only read "Dune" and nothing else in the series. I didn't know there were even more than 1 book until the last movie was being hyped up.
Are they as good? Better? Weirder? What ends up being the actual main plot of the story as a whole?
Messiah is good
Children is decent but spotty
God Emperor is essentially a fever dream. I was like WTF while reading it but I love how off the rails it went.
The last couple are kind of meandering and forgettable.
The immediate prequels (house books) are a fun read and plotted well, but his kid isn't as good of a writer as poppa Herbert
The legends books are garbage
The last 2 books that tie up the original series (hunters and sandworms) are not good and are infuriating in that elements from the legends books are reintroduced as deus ex machina bullshit. I saw the twist coming halfway through the last book.
I never read any of the other gap filler books that have been written in that universe. It got tiresome
Everything up until God Emperor is worthwhile with the prequels being a fun appetizer. Read the synopses of the others if you need to know what happens
As with most sci-fi the author gets loopier in the later books. That being said:
- Dune: masterpiece of philosophy, one of the best books ever put to print
- Dune Messiah: a worthy sequel and must read after the first book; completes Paul's arc
- Children of Dune: more plot driven than the first, but still thematically rich and entertaining.
- God Emperor of Dune: the most divisive of the books: you love it or you hate it. I am in the love it camp, the book is unhinged and the themes are marvelous. This is where I'd stop a read of the series.
- Chapterhouse and the other (Heretics?): forgettable in my opinion, simply because I've forgotten them. Later book fan opinions welcome.
- anything Brian Herbert: not terrible but not awfully good either. Makes for decent light reading I guess, and there's good lore building in some of the books despite some unforgivable retcons (Agemmemnon, sigh)
Heretics and Chapterhouse are also weirdly horny. Sure, sex was always a big part of how the Bene Gesserit operated, but when they were made the hero faction it got... weird...
Those two books also fully raised Duncan to be the main character, though, and they introduced Miles Teg, so they have that going for them.
Consider the first three books one trilogy that completes a story. It ends with a cliffhanger that picks up millenia later with the next three. The two written by Frank's son "finish" the main story.
I enjoyed all of them and will reread them at some point. Of all of them, chapterhouse was the weirdest of them.
Children of Dune is the only one i have to grin and bear. I love Good Emperor through Chapterhouse better than Messiah and only slightly less than the original.
Also Leto the Second is Pauls second son named Leto not because he’s the second Leto Atreides after Paul’s father just add more confusion
He is technically the second person named Leto Atreides. Paul's first son was named in the Fremen custom, which lacks surnames.
Who are those people i just watched dune 1 a couple of years ago and have aldready forgot most of it the movie was'nt that good
Paul is the dude in the picture, the Duke's son.
Leto II. isn't in those movies, he is the son of Paul and appears later in the books.
As others said, not Paul. It's weird as fuck, completely surreal. But it's the most amazing book I've ever read. The transformation is considered weird as fuck by the characters in the book too, but it allows Frank to explore some truly unique and interesting ideas.
I don't think I will ever again have a literary experience as satisfying as reading that book.
Dune gets weird toward the end. Then each book is progressively weirder and simultaneously awesome.
Don't think we'll get anything beyond God Emperor though :/
Villeneuve doesn't even want to go that far. He plans on stopping once he adapts Messiah as Part 3.
Which is sad, but it's a good concluding point - Paul is blinded by the Stone Burners, and leaves the crusades to it's end, and as a fremen follows the fremen tradition of being blind, and leaves into the desert.
But then if he decides nah he wants to answer "what next" would be fantastic too
Will you love me forever?
Let me sleep on it
Baby, baby, let me sleep on it
Let me sleep on it
I'll give you an answer in the morning!
Well there's a song I've not heard in a while, and one I've never seen referenced on the Internet. Kudos!