If you like all three you have to settle arguments between Battlestar Galactica, Farscape, and Bablyon 5 fans.
And Andromeda, which is exactly as it should be. FUCK YOU KEVIN SORBO YOU RIGHT-WING PIECE OF SHIT
Stargate fans and Farscape fans have a lot of overlap thanks to two Farscape actors being in SG1's later seasons
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my favorite "star trek v star wars" fanfic i ever read was actually really fair and obviously written by a fan of both star franchises (or stargate lol)
i have no idea what it was called. but it acknowledged the strengths and weaknesses each would have an created a neat scenario that resulted in a plausible "worlds collide" event that in itself was very star trek (dimensional rift kind of thing).
it was basically Empire v Federation. the Empire blew up Mars. hyperspace was insanely fast and gave the star destroyers a massive advantage but federation ships were packing incredible firepower and maneuverability. there were good stakes and it was fun.
my only bias was enjoying space fascists eventually get fucked up by plucky inventive space communists once they realized they were basically fighting the equivalent of the "coast guard".
once they realized they were basically fighting the equivalent of the "coast guard".
can you elaborate on this please?
Starfleet ships are not, by and large, warships. Smacking around a California class doesn't necessarily mean anything about your chances against a Defiant class or an Akira class
While they're armed, most federation ships are primarily civilian in nature, and built accordingly.
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sorry for late reply! my summary was poorly worded. the dimensional rift connected the Sol system and the environs around Courscant together. in the story the Enterprise-E crew we all know and love figured out along with starfleet that the forces they were up against was not an experienced conquering battlefleet but basically a colonial police force/coast guard and used that to their advantage. it took place post-Dominion war so starfleet ironically had far more combat experience and combat capable ships and they were able to outmaneuver and essentially isolate and tactically destroy the star destroyer and Imperial fleet elements because they were so overconfident and not used to fighting a force that had such radically different doctrine and technology.
it treated the star destroyers as tough to take down heavily armored behemoths that had inaccurate manually crew served plasma weapons that individually didn't pack a huge punch.
You all just ignore the carnifex in the room being when warhammer fans come in into that
does 40k have skaven? I'm laughing at the thought of the Borg assimilating a rat only to discover too late that they're carrying the plague.
Fortunately no, best decision lore-wise. Hrud are the very loose analogue of skaven in 40k, but they don't get even 1/10000 of attention and fashdom obnoxiousness.
I just like funny rats with funny guns, I didn’t know the fash loved them 
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The Hrud are neat too though
Skaven are ancaps, and even fictional ancaps are highly disgusting, though to be fair some lefty players are not lost on this fact and some good content is produced because of that. Unfortunately, skaven are the chosen faction of a lot of absolute worst insufferable dregs among the fashdom due to overlapping of nazi and libertarian ideas.
Hrud are pretty cool, one of the not many factions in 40k which aren't the one time disposable xenos and are still really alien because they don't even really understand material reality, unfortunately their innate powers make them a real pest.
Oh yeah the skaven are possibly the most evil and deplorable faction in fantasy/AoS and that’s saying something. I just find them so funny and endearing ngl; they’re little rats with no regard for the value of ethics, safety, morals, hygiene, or life in general, with the most cartoonishly evil mad scientist aesthetic you’ve ever seen. They are absolutely not to be taken seriously, and the thought of some fans looking on the skaven in any sort of serious positive light is……..
Given it’s the Warhammer fandom I really shouldn’t be surprised though
40k doesn't have Skaven.
Which is just what the Great Horned Rat wants you think, yes-yes!
Everyone is gangsta until the Culture shows up.
Also, as a Warhammer fan I think Warhammer fans very consistently overestimate the power level of their own setting. Galaxy-scale interstellar travel taking many years and being extremely unreliable is a huge detriment, not to mention the inate problems of interstellar communication via the dreams of tortured psykers conveyed through the medium of Hell.
Everyone is gangsta until the Culture shows up.
And the second place is i think Honorverse missile deluges.
I was consistently downvoted on the 40k reddit discussions when i pointed out that Warhammer navies would be probably splattered by forces from most other established settings even if simply because they are really slow and half of their weapons (everything that isn't lances really) would be completely unusable in combat against them.
Idk if i mentioned it here, but there is long and quite interesting fanfic about Culture spreading to 40k galaxy, and interestingly enough they only thing Culture had a problem with were the warp influence, prophecy powers of Tzeentch sorcerers, and maybe their own undecisiveness about orks. Tyranids for example were just erased in passing.
Ok but what about The Culture vs Goku? Personally I think a committee of particularly zesty Culture Minds would compile a list of devastating dunks and deliver them directly to Gokus brain via effectors, he would then fall into a deep depression from which he would never recover.
Wouldn't the Borg shields hold against the Death Star? Then again, the Death Stars cannon blows up planets so... yeah it would probably nail one Borg Cube, the Borg would adapt and then curb stomp the Death Star.
i am entertained by both of the universes, but the federation of Star Trek just plain has superior technology by several orders of magnitude. the federation inadvertently creates planet and solar system destroying materials fairly routinely that generally are meant to have some higher scientific purpose, but could 100% be weaponized... as is often the threat when some antagonist finds out about them so their development is tightly controlled.
those two jumped into my mind first, but i'm sure every season of TOS and TNG have some doomsday b.s.
meanwhile, the death star took like generations of theorizing and development by like the smartest guy they could find, a completely unique and entire planet's worth of extremely rare, ancient magic materials, and multiple planets of slave labor to make a single doomsday weapon.
the regular armaments the federation tools around with are basically like the space faring equivalent of what the Garda Síochána roll around with in Ireland, because the whole point is find diplomatic solutions to every conflict and not be a cause for escalation. so like space pepper spray, space batons, and space handcuffs. none of that stuff did anything to the borg except when the borg attacked earth and they put the entire defensive armada on it. generally, they always ended up using some weird ad hoc move like hijacking the hive consciousness or whatever. the borg cubes could travel at warp speeds faster than the flagship of the federation.
there is absolutely no chance "hyperspace" is comparable to Star Trek warp propulsion, because in ST they can use it to do time travel.
star wars fandom weirdos usually try to insist that the size of star wars crafts is somehow correlated with their capability. to me, the imperial fleet is more like the absurd dreadnoughts of the late 19th and early 20th century, that were these relics of a mindset that was obsessed with having the biggest guns firing the biggest shells since that was the big scary technology: the ability to fire a giant shell from far away. in star wars every weapon is basically a laser beam and the variability is scale. even the capital ships and death star are just firing really huge lasers. their whole power is based around their unchallenged control of key areas. in Andor it's characterized as a lazy regime that invites rebellion because it is too arrogant to imagine being opposed.
in ST they are always reprograming torpedos and probes to deliver weird ass payloads of bizarre energy, nanite materials or biologicals. the technology and mindset of the star wars deal always felt like it would have been part of the Eugenics Wars.... some supremacist bozos running around doing lots of genocide and slaughtering, but essentially primitive and limited compared to what the federation science would develop centuries later, after the dark ages.
if there were an honest Borg Cube vs. Death Star, the death star wouldn't even understand what the cube was and be paralyzed by incomprehension when it just sort of drifted there and didn't open fire, engage, or even seem to respond. a handful of drones would be "captured" and brought on board to clumsily interrogate, resulting in the entire station being assimilated in like 36 hours lol. the only weird counter-shit SW has is their space wizards and i bet like one space wizard could kill like 3 borg before the borg would adapt and then assimilate the wizard. then there's Borg Space Wizards around, fuckin' shit up. that would be the most interesting legacy of Borg Cube vs. Moon Laser Base 1969.
then there's Borg Space Wizards around, fuckin' shit up.
This would actually be the interesting part of mashing the two worlds together.
Because the force is inherently non-scientific, it would be interesting to see what an assimilated force user might do. Does the Borg retain the ability to use it? Is it lost? Do dark and light force users react the same way?
Does the force gain sentience, essentially using the Borg as it's limbic system? Does the federation start to develop ForceTech and scientize humanity's relationship with the force?
The force is either consciousness interacting either the fundamental universe at a Quantum level. Or as some star wars stories would have it the force is a lovecraftian artificial intelegence that exists in somekind of subspace that can interact in the universe through a few specific types of exotic paracite. Midiclorians for example. It is unclear which was ment to be the real story or of it matters.
I’m not sure how the Borg assimilates, but unless it can account for an actual mystical property of soul, it would get super fucking weird. I don’t even know how it would go, it would just be incomprehensible.
The Borg have assimilated at least one Vulcan, and Vulcans have the ability to store and transfer their katra, which are indistinguishable from souls
Does the force gain sentience
Lots of stuff in canon and from various creators (particularly George Lucas) suggests the force is already conscious and has it's own agenda.
The Xindi made a planet killer way back in the 2150s, and the one man crew prototype dug a trench from Florida to Venezuela in seconds. That technology is considered primitive by the time the Borg show up.
I don’t know fuck all about Star Trek but I don’t agree with them being stunned in awe and confusion. These are the close-minded dogs of the Empire, the purest and most heartless sociopaths they could find. I think they might go for the kill just because they don’t know what it is. The Stargate guild had the correct opinion, I think, unless Borg Cubes can withstand the force necessary to destroy an entire planet.
i bet like one space wizard could kill like 3 borg
Counterpoint: Jedi mind trick. Aren’t the borg a hive mind? Could a single mind trick temporarily stun the entire hive, if only once? Would it even bother to adapt if the Jedi that does it doesn’t take the opportunity to do anything hostile? Seems dumb not to, but then, would they be able to without sacrificing visual or auditory processing?
mind trick only works on weak minded individuals. Very unlikely it works on a vast and sophisticated hivemind with a powerful will
Oh, duh. This is where I would bring up the insane bullshit anime tier feats some Jedi or force entities have done in comics or were implied to have done in shows, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to bring that stuff in, and I don’t know much about it.
I don’t know fuck all about Star Trek but I don’t agree with them being stunned in awe and confusion. These are the close-minded dogs of the Empire, the purest and most heartless sociopaths they could find.
remember, the empire are basically space fascists. so they're also arrogant in the extreme and the hierarchy is rife with corruption and nepotism, making true leadership abilities among officers rare. they never regard anything as a threat to their power until it's way too late. little dinky cargo ships with some aftermarket upgrades and a clever pilot routinely disable and confound their capital ships. [one of my favorite scenes from Andor, absolutely killer direction and acting]
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Also, people don't realize how big the ships of the Federation and their peer civilizations are. The baseline Star Destroyer is 1 km long. A Romulan D'deridex class warbird is 1.3 km long. A Borg cube is 3 km on a side. Yes, the Empire makes much bigger ships than that, culminating in the Death Star, but they always seem to be... more of the same?
Unless the Star Wars galaxy is very small, hyperspace is much faster than normal warp, maybe faster than proto-warp or turn-you-into-salamanders transwarp, maybe comparable to Borg transwarp conduits. But as far as I know, Star Wars ships can't maneuver or fight in hyperspace, and don't have FTL sensors. Which would mean no defense against the Picard Maneuver - except Force precognition. Hope they have Sith tactical officers on every Star Destroyer.
meanwhile, the death star took like generations of theorizing and development by like the smartest guy they could find, a completely unique and entire planet's worth of extremely rare, ancient magic materials, and multiple planets of slave labor to make a single doomsday weapon.
And they built another one, more than twice as large, very shortly afterwards. And another bigger and more powerful one after that.
Star Wars has tons of planet killing super weapons knocking around, some of which can work from tens of thousands of lightyears away.
but the federation of Star Trek just plain has superior technology by several orders of magnitude
It does more stuff sure, but Star Wars has provided numbers for lots of their ships, weapons and various technologies, and the numbers are far in excess of early-to-mid era star trek. Terrible numbers mind, with seemingly no thought for consistency, but they are canon.
A single star destroyer is enough to liquify the crust of a planet in fairly short order.
Yeah I don't really know any Star Trek but this feels like it should be an easy question. Planet busting is a pretty universal power scaling measurement, can a borg cube take a planet buster? If so, borg cube wins.
I don't think so, borg shields had adaptive functions which worked against weapons based more on clever manipulation of energy than on the volume of energy. Death Star was just emitting enough of the shit to completely smash Earth-size planet not even into pieces but into dust (planetary scale dust that is) in split second. Star Trek pretend to not entirely ignore physics so that would be most likely way more then enough to destroy any vessel of borg, adaptation or not.
Some adaptation is always possible. They might have to develop/assimilate that portal gun from Picard S03 in order to redirect the beam away from them. It's reasonable that simply adapting their standard shields wouldn't work.
Now, once you throw a couple of Pegasus-galaxy replicator frigates into the mix, those little bastards could infiltrate both the cube and the Death Star. But if the Ori show up with their ascended Ancient weaponry, fuhgeddaboudit. Everyone's all so worried about Butlerian Jihad that they forget about Morena Baccarin Jihad.
On a sidenote, does anybody know where I can get ahold of an Ark of Truth so that I can load it up with Yellow Parenti?
Nah, that's silly
The Death Star is 80,000 times larger than a Borg Cube and can blow up an entire planet.
Obviously anything's possible with some sneaky-sneaky assimilation growing out of control. But in terms of an actual ship to ship fight, come on, your body is about 80,000 times larger than a gnat.
I get second hand embarrassment from people saying stuff like that. Literally if I asked a Marvel fan: Who would win, the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe, or the titular character from my book, "Guy Who Automatically Wins Every Fight, Magically, Without Even Trying", like half of people would say my book sucks and so logically, the Hulk would punch him really hard, or whatever. It's so dumb.
Like no, it literally does not matter how shitty you think this book is, it's literally canon that your favorite super hero can lose, and canon that mine can't. If you fail at objectivity that hard why even bother talking about anything jesus christ
(Yes this is about Superman)
this is about Superman
Are there people who think Superman can beat One Punch Man or Goku or something?
More like people who think some well written character could beat Superman, a dog shit character who can throw planets, go faster than light, or do whatever the fuck they feel like he can do
"Oh well they would get kryptonite and" and Superman would just throw the planet into the sun. Even Superman's own content has to just pretend he's weaker than he was last time
It would be kinda interesting to think about approximately when Goku became stronger than Superman
Probably around Battle of Gods when they had the throwaway line about Goku & Beerus’s punches shaking the entire universe. I love Dragon Ball but it’s gotten sillier and sillier over time, which if I’m being honest I’m 100% here for
a dog shit character
"Supermans boring because he's strong" is a bad take. Comics arent just about the fights. Dont let power scalers fool you. The good superman stories have little to do with fights. They're about the person and his relationships.
We had a whole thread about this smh.
Character maybe not, but powers? Yes, dog shit. A good writer could write a good story about "Guy Who Automatically Always Wins for No Reason"
which is why the 1st borg cube gets destroyed, after which the borg adapt their shields and technology and tactics to whatever weaponry the death star has, with the combined military experience and technological knowledge of a bunch of different species.
the second borg cube adapts to the frequency of the death star laser and then is still turned into subatomic particles because it's enough energy to blow up a planet
The second Death Star blasted rebel capital ships which are around the same league, though a little bit larger
But maybe one of the Borg cubes beams a group of drones onto the death star before they're blown up, meaning that even if the cubes die the Collective still gains a borgified superweapon.
The assimilation strategy is very legit, the shield thing is what's stupid. I think anyone but the dumbest Star Wars weirdo would admit that yeah borg could walk up on stormtroopers
This reminds me of one that comes up sometimes on whowouldwin.
In Worm there is a character, Contessa. Her power is that (entire web serial spoilers) ::: spoiler spoiler an alien supercomputer in another dimension is connected to her brain. It's so powerful that she imagines an outcome and it simulates the entire world and gives her a series of actions she can take to achieve that goal, which can be as simple as where when and how to move around and make attacks to win a fight, to as complicated and open ended as "how do I prevent unspecified threats from ending the world." The alien supercomputer also makes sure she is incapable of screwing up its perfect instructions via human error or slow reaction speeds.
Her only weakness is that physically she's a very fit middle-aged woman, not superhumanly strong. :::
Whowouldwin consistently insists that this absolutely unfairly strong character couldn't possibly beat Batman.
Lol
That's absolutely insane. Never heard of this, but couldn't she literally just get a rifle, a couple of boards, a stopwatch, and a protractor, and literally just shoot a gun into the air and hit batman in the head from 2 miles away? Couldnt she hack any computer including all of Batman's shit? They are very close to saying Batman could toss a cheeky batarang at God
Yeah, that is easily within her capabilities.
At one point she performs a relatively similar stupid gun trick and
::: spoiler spoiler
removes the part of another superhuman's brain that lets them control their powers, by shooting them in the head with a handgun in the exact right spot to turn off their powers without killing them or otherwise causing brain damage.
:::
But she's not their special boy, Batman, so they're like "Batman can dodge bullets, because one writer in 2006 wrote a comic where he did that one time, and therefore he'd just dodge the bullet and speed blitz her."
When you're just an asshole in a remote sector of the galaxy, and have no real systemic power to oppress people.
Wouldn't the Borg transport some of their drones onto the death star and start assimilating the stormtroopers and crew from the inside before their cube got smashed?
I think it really comes down to who strikes first. Both sides have preemptive abilities that would bag them a quick victory if the other side is oblivious.
nuance has no place in nerd discussion, all fights are determined purely by 'combat stats' as defined by ad hoc online nerd arguments based on specious examples of deus ex machina from the combatants respective canons
Whether or not the Borg can beam through shields is as consistent in lore we whether or not transporters work at warp speed.
Yes, but if they assimilate any storm troopers, the borg won't be able to hit the broad side of a barn.
Has the Stargate fandom recovered from being infiltrated by chuds? I remember not too long ago they were talking about how the go'ulds are an anti-semitic allegory.
Couldn't a Borg cube just move out of the way of the Death Star's beam? It has to aim at something. It's a big thing with a clean cannon port. It has to charge up its shorts. With planets, its easy to track their trajectory, because they don't tend to change. A Borg cube could just move in a mildly erratic manner.