https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/02/desantis-debate-gavin-newsom-fox-00109577
The California governor has been trying to get his Florida Republican counterpart to engage. On Wednesday, he got it.
The California governor has been trying to get his Florida Republican counterpart to engage. On Wednesday, he got it.
When you speak the truth, you don't need a special referee. Bernie went on a Fox News town hall and got an audience to mostly all raise their hands in support of Medicare for all.
We all have more in common, once we all sober up...
You do however need an impartial one. Going on Fox to debate facts is a bit like train to explain quantum physics to a duck.
It won't work and everyone will think you're weird for trying.
Fox doesn't have right wing leadings, it's straight up propaganda. Truth and objective reality are completely irrelevant. They're the one saying trump will run from prison, which obviously he won't be allowed to do, but they say it anyway, they are not going to care about the truth.
True, but he will only do it live and that is an opportunity to reach people, and it will be obvious if they are being unfair
Looks like Lemmy has not seen Newsom debate. And apparently didn’t see Newsom school Hannity on his show last month.
I don't know California politics other than as it relates to national. What's Newsom's angle here? I ask because, at least at a glance, this seems like a loser for him. The best he can hope for is to demolish DeSantis. Let's assume he does--and it's certainly not a sure thing (the deck is stacked against him with the ref playing for the other team, after all)--but so what? DeSantis's fire is almost already out, and if it doesn't die on its own or thanks to Mr. Orange Indictment, the Mouse will finish him. Newsom's already a rising star; if he annihilates DeSantis he's basically punching down, and he's taking a huge risk by even volunteering for this, since if he fucks up he's done in national politics before he even started.
The best I can come up with is that this is a play by the party at large to try to revitalize Florida Man's campaign by getting some free press on him, either to force Trump to spend more to squash him or try to get a repeat of 1972 (i.e., Trump as Muskie). However, that's giving the Democratic party a lot of credit and making some pretty cynical assumptions about their future plans for Newsom.
This has been Newsome's shtick for a minute. During his reelection campaign, he spent campaign funds advertising on Fox in Florida. He's been going to red states to give speeches. He gave an interview to Sean Hannity just a month or so ago. He's brandishing his reputation as a democratic fighter not afraid to go into hostile territory and news environments to stand up for liberal values.
DeSanits in particular has been a foil for Newsome since at least the coronavirus days when Florida was open and getting crushed under the delta wave. He regularly attacks DeSantis on abortion, book bans, teaching that slavery wasn't so bad, on and on. When DeSantis sent migrants on a plane to California, Newsome instantly reacted suggesting that DeSantis could be charged with kidnapping (this made his staff none to happy btw, Newsome can be like Trump in that he tweets out policy forcing his staff to react without notice).
Newsome is term limited, so he's done in 2026(?). He's been on the campaign trail trying to become Bidens number one bestest surrogate. He's building his brand for a presidential run in 2028. Also he just loves the spotlight. I doubt there is much logic to that beyond that.
And it doesn't matter what happens at the debate, so there's no real downside. Viral clips will be shared of good zingers each contestant got in, each side will talk about how their guy crushed the other guy. None of this will change anyone's mind. It's all just a show, and Newsome loves to be on stage.
I mean this in the least condescending way possible, but you don't understand how American politics works.
The absolute best scenario for Democrats is for the Republicans to split their ticket between Trump and DeSantis - or anyone else, but there doesn't seem to be anyone else thus far with his pull on the national stage.
It'll be Clinton-Bush-Perot but in reverse.
Isn't that the most significant part of trump's personality, too? Trump just also has the indictments and history of losing.
Personally, my parents are lifetime Republicans and are looking to vote for anyone that's not Trump, because they see him as a distraction that is hard to portray as "better than the libs," especially since they are nominally Christian.
So I think there's a decent chance of DeSantis pulling at least a 5-10% of conservatives away from Trump.
DeSantis stealing Trump votes requires him to run as an independent. If he loses the primary and doesn't go independent, all those votes just go back to Trump. I haven't heard anything about an independent run from him, but I might have just missed something.
I don't know if DeSantis would run as an independent, but I do know that my parents would vote for him if he did, especially since they live in CA where they're convinced their views in presidential elections don't make a bit of difference. I absolutely guarantee that Trump would run as an independent if he doesn't get the nomination, since admitting defeat gracefully is not something he is able to do.
Plus, we just need more people thinking DeSantis has a chance before the primaries and the situation for the RNC gets even more muddled
Edit: plus, Republicans getting upset or ambivalent about the nominee is a sure way to depress voter turnout, so the more infighting, the better for Democrats, even if DeSantis doesn't run as an independent
Definitely. I was hoping that DeSantis would just barely sneak by Trump in the primaries so Trump would have to run independent, and spoil the vote. It was extreme wishful thinking, but we all gotta dream, right?
How would Republicans split the ticket? Are you assuming one would run as independent after the primary?
I think the idea is that if Tump didn't get the nomination he would run as an independent and hold the party hostage.
please happen, please. I want to see the absolute destruction to the party that supported a wannabe dictator
Yeah I don't buy it - if trump was the runner up, I could totally see him running as an independent, but I don't see it for DeSantis, and even if he tried, I don't think he has the base anymore to actually pull it off.
You need the kind of blind adoration that Trump (for some reason) has in his following to make a 3rd party bid remotely feasible, DeSantis just doesn't inspire that in people.
Out best hope for a split conservative base was DeSantis winning the primaries and Trump switching to independent (because he's absolutely stubborn and prideful enough to do it), I don't see it happening the other way around
Yes. Trump has literally said he won't adhere to the results of the primary and will run regardless.
Gavin Newsom wants to be president. Maybe not this cycle, but defo the next cycle
I'd happily take four more Biden years, and then eight of Newsom - neither one is anywhere near perfect/ideal, but compared to the alternative...
Probably partly related to Newsom's continual use of the "pied piper" strategy, trying to boost right-wing opponents so that he doesn't have to face off against anyone left of center.
He's doing this because he wants to run for President in 28 and he is cultivating his brand on the national stage.
It's a big gamble tho, you're right about that.
On Wednesday, DeSantis agreed, telling Fox News’ Sean Hannity: “Absolutely I’m game. Just tell me when and where.”
An aide to Newsom told POLITICO that the governor was also in. Newsom’s office had sent a formal request offer to Fox News last week with proposed debate dates of Nov. 8 or Nov. 10. That request called for Hannity to serve as the sole moderator for a 90-minute forum on Fox News that would not include an in-studio audience and would air live.
This shows confidence. Hope we get the full uncut broadcast - I'll bootleg the hell out of this. Fox News YouTube won't get my views.
An SF Bay Area rich guy debating a Florida swamp chimp? I am going to smoke a nice sativa for this one… and make some popcorn… can’t forget that.
Edit: a word
Hey lets not insult the Florida swamp chimps with that comparison, I propose Gitmo Ghoul.
I’m not a big Newsom fan - I have a grudge against him for some of his decisions as governor- but if he pulls this off looking good, I will definitely be impressed.
I can’t imagine this going well. DeSantis will not properly debate, he’ll probably just try to talk over him. And Fox ‘News’ won’t do anything to properly moderate DeSantis, like muting his mic when he speaks out of turn.
That’s kind of my point - if he can turn something positive out of a no win situation, then he might have the charisma to stand up to the gop.
It’s on Fox News so there will be no moderation for DeSantis while Newsom will be held to the strictest of standards. I expect a bunch of gotcha questions directed to Newsom with not enough time to properly answer while DeSantis gets softballs with all the time he needs.
I don't know too much about Newsom, he has some pretty far left views I'm not a fan of, but also has done some things notably good.
I'm pretty excited for this, I lean conservative, so I want to see DeSantis debate against someone fairly competent, and I'd like to see more of Newsom, as he's being talked about being a potential presidential runner in 2028.
Overall, I really want to see more governors come together and debate problems and solutions in their states, that's the beautiful thing about America. We have 50 states that can tackle issues differently as their population sees fit, the point is to try out solutions and hopefully use other states policies to improve your state or see that it doesn't work.
Far left? Are you fucking high?
And what solutions has DeSantis come up with that are good? Banning books? Teaching kids slavery had its good points?
Far left? Are you fucking high?
No, not yet.
Despite your hostility, I'll entertain you. You know, a civil person, like someone else that responded to me, would have asked why I thought he was far left.
And what solutions has DeSantis come up with that are good?
I liked his covid policy, and many people did too. Keep schools open, protect the vulnerable. The economy kept going, the state grew and his popularity blew up. Even far left folks like AOC wanted to visit to get away from her NY restrictions. He's been good for the Florida natural environment as well as economy.
Banning books?
I think we may have different views on this, schools are locally funded by tax payers. Tax payers should get a say in what books they pay for in schools. If parents think 'gender queer' is too perverted for 3rd graders, I think it's the parents right to have a voice and say in that.
Teaching kids slavery had its good points?
I actually read the portion the media is blowing up about. It's in a ~200 page text book that has one sentence saying that some slaves picked up skills that helped their lives post slavery. It's really not that big of a deal, is truthful and only a problem for people wanting a headline.
As a civil human being I simply believe that conservatives like you do not belong in civil society. It would be beneficial to take modest steps to make the average conservative incapable of purchasing property, being in public without a well informed and civil chaperone, and banned from serving in the armed forces. Such a proposal is in line with rules conservative countries take towards 50% of their population, and thus it is only fair that we adopt mirror policies.
See how fucking little civility matters when fundamental rights are being discussed? Get your head out of your ass and recognize that anger is justified against defenders of fascism like you. You pathetic little weasels probably only supported the 1960s civil rights movement because the white people looked and acted more thuggish than the black activists. Or maybe that still didn't even sway you.
DeSantis actively harassed scientists with police when they tried to report accurate numbers after he withdrew from the national reporting system. Meanwhile, what's the worst policy that Newsom instituted long term? Making people wear masks? I swear, blind fools like you wouldn't recognize authoritarianism if it knocked down your front door. You think economic freedom matters when you live under an oppressive state?
Books should not be banned in a country that supposedly values freedom of speech, period. Mein Kampf, the Turner Diaries, any fucking book should be allowed in libraries if it has the space for it. Hell, if I lived in Florida I'd push to have the Bible banned with your logic. It promotes and is sponsored by organizations that have an actual history of grooming and abuse. That's not even considering the violent and sometimes lewd content in it.
Even that small quote, if that's all there is which is doubtful, misrepresents the nature of why those skills were given. They were given to milk value out of human beings like cattle. It's like saying cows are fed nutritious foods that help them grow. Yes it's technically true, but saying that by itself ignores the reason that food is given. It focuses on a shiny reflection on a picture of a pile of poop.
DeSantis is a fascist supported by Nazis, who hires Nazis. Defending such a piece of shit is pathetic and disgusting. I know you think you're a sensible conservative, but the standard conservative would rather see liberal democracy destroyed than accept that an asshole like Trump could lose an election fair and square. If you choose to side with Republicans at this point, you're a fascist buddy, congrats.
As a civil human being I simply believe that conservatives like you do not belong in civil society
It's funny that you're probably the first to call people fascists, but this is an objectively fascist view. People who aren't in your political party don't belong in civil society? Hahaha.
conservative incapable of purchasing property
Fascist.
being in public without a well informed and civil chaperone
Fascist
banned from serving in the armed forces
Because we don't share the same views as you? That's fascist.
Such a proposal is in line with rules conservative countries take towards 50% of their population, and thus it is only fair that we adopt mirror policies.
Which countries are you talking about?
You're clearly incapable of understanding a satirical joke to prove a point. I don't want any one of those fucking things for anyone, yet that's the sort of shit conservatives are pushing for. They're trying to make it illegal to present as any gender other than the one you were assigned at birth in public, effectively banning trans people from public life.
The other points were things that the most extreme in the American right argue for, and policies already enacted against women in conservative theocracies today. Some of these counties are American allies, like Saudi Arabia, and some are enemies like Iran. As much as you might try to deny it, there is serious overlap between Christian nationalists, and ISIS. Those fascist theocracies are the logical conclusion of the modern American right.
The whole point of that paragraph was to highlight how hard it is to be civil with someone threatening your fundamental rights. I wanted to put you in the shoes of the people your evil ideology oppresses. It shows a fundamental lack of respect to even hold and express those extreme views that DeSantis enacts policy on, so of course I have no reason to show you any respect. It doesn't matter how pretty the box is; what matters is what's inside it.
You’re clearly incapable of understanding a satirical joke to prove a point
So you're joking and you think conservatives should be allowed to participate in our society? So your fascist views are in jest?
Conservatives should be legally allowed to participate in society, yes. Of course what I said was in jest. Just because they are legally protected by the law, doesn't mean other people can't use their own freedom of speech and association to call out and disassociate from awful ideas and people. Protection under the law doesn't mean anyone needs to put up with you.
However, not all restrictions are automatically fascist. In fact, even liberal democracies would be wise to not legally tolerate people who were willing to overthrow the system. Much like tolerance, liberty is a social contract, and those who want to take away the liberty of others should not have their own liberty protected.
Assault weapon bans for the wrong citizens
sanctuary cities/states
negligence of the problem of homelessness and actively encouraging it
Restricting sales of certain cars & insane gas taxes
Covid shut downs
I gave you an upvote because unlike most of your compatriots you seem to be open to new ideas, and evaluating positions on their merits based on your comment. I don't see where anything you said was out of pocket really, even if I disagree with your conservative leaning ideology.
I'm not a fan of the instant downvote when someone outs themselves as a conservative as contentious or unjustifiable as that position may seem here on Lemmy.
I would certainly not agree with your position that Newsom is far left politically, as he has pretty much shown himself to be a boilerplate Corporate Democrat and Nancy Pelosi Acolyte. Which, I am not really a fan of, but I do think he has balls.
I appreciate the upvote, unfortunately the way she goes on social media, if I saw I'm conservative at all, instant downvote.
As I mentioned I don't know too much about him, but do know some of his notably left positions:
'assault' weapon bans for some citizens (I'm against exceptions in these cases, my state just passed an AWB, but current and former law enforcement are exempt, that's just saying that this population, that has a high rate of DV, have more rights than the other citizens)
Him being proud of being a sanctuary state/have sanctuary cities. The left wants more federal government power, but if it's inconvienent for them, will not enforce laws that the nation has passed. They're also the ones that get pissed if a republican state doesn't want a federal law enacted.
Fighting against private businesses (walgreens) for making decisions that the governor doesn't like. If someone is pissed at how DeSantis has handled disney, they should be more pissed at Newsom's handling of Walgreens.
i’ve never seen far left in american government so i’m curious. can you name say, two of newsom’s veiws that seem “far left” to you?
Meaning they're trying to ban tools from us, but can't define what tools. They also try to ban it solely for some people, and not others, such as government agents.
Overall, I really want to see more governors come together and debate problems and solutions in their states
If this is important to you, why do you affiliate with the Gaslight Obstruct Project party? Or when you say "debate" do you mean poo fling?
If this is important to you, why do you affiliate with the Gaslight Obstruct Project party?
Or when you say “debate” do you mean poo fling?
No, I mean debate.