For anyone who wants to do this, use Kill Windows Update. It's simple. and it works. There's several million reasons why conventional wisdom demands that you NOT do it, but I don't give a fuck and if you don't either, then this program is for you.
I don't keep nuclear secrets on my PC, but sometimes I run tasks that take days to process, and Windows updates have fucked me more than once.
Updates patch major security vulnerabilities. It’s cute that you think nuclear secrets existing in your hard drive are the only reason why you should care if your PC is infected with malware but it isn’t. Malware can steal your keystrokes, granting attackers access to your bank accounts and every other place you sign into online. Malware also uses background processes to do bad things, so your “multi-day” processes will take even longer when your computers resources are being hogged by nasty stuff.
A machine sitting there quietly crunching numbers isn't going to get infected unless your firewall is wide open, and if it is then correcting that is far more important than installing the latest Windows updates
And they can use your PC for DDoS attack on other people, so it's not like it's just your problem if your pc gets infected by everything ever.
Your computer is still using the power and it can damage it
Thats not how that works.
Sure it could cause some data loss, or corruption, or other software issues if the computer was in the middle of something like applying updates, but it should not cause hardware damage. All this applies to holding the powerbutton as well by the way.
or (really unlikely, on a shit connector) you get shocked.
Then you have bigger problems. You shouldn't be using a connector that's a shock or fire hazard in the first place.
But seriously about the only bad thing about it is perhaps some wear and tear on the connector that's not designed to be plugged in and pulled out every day. Alternatively you could also "pull the power" by pressing a button on your powerstrip (if you have that), or by flipping the powersupply button at the back of the computer to off. It all does the same thing: it cuts the power to the computer instantly.
It’s also more convenient to hold the button instead of having to unplug and re-plug.
Yes, but holding the button is not instant and it relies on a software function in the bios which can be buggy. Usually holding the button doesn't even complete poweroff the system but puts it in a special "standby" power state where the motherboard still keeps providing power to some components. There are some issues that can only be resolved by a complete poweroff.
I do use linux mint for basic stuff, bit I am a complete noob and can’t figure out how to get Altstore on it, not that it matters because it hasn’t been updated in 2 years for Linux
I googled about it and I think I have found another thing to waste my day on! Can you dual-boot hackintosh with Linux mint?
You're using apple products? There's your problem.
The software you're talking about doesn't even support Linux.
Bro, if you want to raise adoption you gotta drop the "IAmVerySmart" tone. Be kind with people, encourage them to learn. There was a time you didn't know this either.
Instead of saying "haha you use apple" why not "Oh okay great, so if you used X on Apple you'll probably find Y on Linux to be very similar"
If there’s anything Linux users are most known for on the internet it’s their holier than thou attitude towards windows users.
That's the annoying attitude I've hated while being in the tech world. I was there back in the days of win98 vs the macintosh, and fanboys were just as annoying back then as they are now - and Linux users have always been the worst of both groups.
The world has nuance. We like Linux. There are fans of Windows and there are fans of Apple. We can show others how we like to use our computers without also demeaning them for their preferences. Above all else, we should admit that no one is stupid for using one OS over the other. I use linux for home, most of my career developing has been on Windows, and I currently develop for work on Mac. They all have their own usages.
Thanks for letting me vent that.
If OP is using an iPhone then Linux is probably not right for them. Just have to accept that you don't control your own devices when you're using those platforms.
Great, then you didn't have to say "Should have installed linux instead" because you admit that it may not be the right solution for everyone.
I assure you that most people that use Linux don't degoogle their phone. What's the difference then?
Without intending to circlejerk, the only linux updates that I have encountered that required a reboot were kernel updates, and they don't force a reboot, they just don't apply until you do. And when you do update the kernel, the update is downloaded and set up without interrupting anything. You can just power off when you're done, and next time you power on, it's already updated. None of those "Please wait 5-10 minutes, and don't power off your PC" messages.
But that's how Windows updates go. They update and then ask for a reboot, which you do when you switch the PC off. The people than complain about windows updating when they logged on are people that delayed the security updates so long that they were beyond critical y the time windows said that enough is enough.
Yeah but for some reason Windows updates hang on the login screen for what seems like an eternity on shutdown and startup. No idea what Windows is doing, but it's super frustrating.
Dunno, when I had windows I just pressed update and restart before logging off and by the next morning it was done.
And if that choice was left to the average user, we would have computers that didn't have security updates for years.
We already have them, they called Windows XP and 7.
Although this is an issue, but it's pretty safe to say that "it's their fault". Also Pop!_OS has the annoying for me pop-up once in a while that tells me that there are updates available. With this users probably will still update sometimes.
At this point I just accept that my windows desktop is going to reboot itself and update itself every fucking night. I used to be able to leave it on for months at a time only rebooting when I felt like it and had prepared all of my open projects to be rebooted.
Now I do those projects on my Linux PC, which has to be a separate PC now because the windows updates completely screw up dual booting. Microsoft is such a shit show, I would probably only turn on that PC on the weekends except I need Windows for work.
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Put a second hard drive In your PC and install Linux solely to it. Then you can use your BIOS boot menu to choose which OS to boot and Windows can't wreck GRUB when updating.
I thought that too. My (now windows only) computer has two M2 slots, I used one for Linux and one for Windows. One day I walked into my office having left windows running the night before and my computer had rebooted and updated, The first thing I did was try to boot into the Linux partition and it did not work.
Not taking that chance again, I now have two separate PCs on my desk.
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Hmm. That's interesting. The only thing I can think of that could potentially cause that is if for whatever reason there was an exisitng EFI partition on your linux drive. Windows will use whatever EFI it sees even if it's on a separate drive from it's primary NTFS partition. As you can imagine this can cause some fucky stuff to happen.
Some instructions I've read for dual booting recommend installing Linux first, removing the SSD wit Linux on it from the computer, and then install Windows to prevent that from happening.
It's really shitty that users have to go through all that trouble, though.
I never shut down or restart my computer. Then some mornings I find that Windows decided to automatically restart my computer anyway. I lost a lot of unsaved notes that way.
To be fair, it would also be highly distruptive if you let the computer run overnight to finish some long running job and Windows decides it's rebootin' time. The point is: the OS shouldn't decide for you to reboot.
Windows doesn't reboot when things are running.
Microsoft wouldn't have to force reboots if there weren't people like lunarul who keep their computer running perpetually.
Windows doesn’t reboot when things are running.
Plenty of reports to the contrary
From your link:
but the option to choose a new time was greyed out
Which only ever happened for me if I had already pushed back an update multiple times. Which then means they had all the time in the world to make sure they do the update before they start such a critical, multiple days long process. These are people without forced update they would never make updates and they are the reason forced updates have to happen now.
It wasnt an issue until windows 10 though. It feels like computers are a bit worse now, imo. For some reason, it's now popular opinion that it's unsafe to run a computer as long as you like. It's one of the main reasons I'll move to Linux.... some day
Not rebooting once in a while giving problems has been a thing since computers started using software.
Linux servers often run for years before having to shut down. Linux can also update without restarting (except kernel updates), if you so wish. Needing to restart frequently is a Windows problem.
I understand that, but I consider a forced restart a much bigger problem. You're more than welcome to disagree
… why exactly are you leaving unsaved work open on your PC and expecting it to be there the next day? And it seems it’s intentional? Think of all the things that could lose the work apart from an update. A power outage, a brownout, a failed PC component; memory corruption, and more.
It's was just notes, not work work (that's all in the cloud). And yes,I expect things to be there the next day, it's been decades since I was working on a 2x86 with a bad hard drive that froze ar random intervals, so I had to save every few seconds. I do save even my random notes now, just in case, but if they get closes I will probably forget about them because the whole point is to have them on screen as reminders.
It's weird how being forced to restart your computer by the OS is obviously a new feature yet people defend it so religiously.
I don't understand why people care so much? It's like people that don't want to keep their PCs running always feel better about themselves for using their PC the way the OS forces them to?
I miss the days of if you don't have something nice to say just stfu. Now, it's if you don't say anything to put them down, how will you feel better about yourself?
Eh… This was more of a comment on “why aren’t you saving your work” which has been a push point since the dawn of computers.
That said, forced updates and restarts aren’t a bad thing. They should be defended to an extent. You don’t remember the days of virtually every consumer PC being months behind on security updates? Viruses running rampant?
The feature can be bypassed by the users who actually care. Yes, with “a lot of” work to intentionally prevent non-power users from just flipping the bit and going back to a world of un-updated boxes of vulnerability.
Idk, I think it's worse and I care very little about the people you're describing. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to turn off the ability for Microsoft to turn off your computer whenever they like.
I never had an issue leaving my PC running or in sleep mode for weeks - I used to pause a game, put it in sleep and then resume it on wake, no problem. Now it's basically impossible to control when it turns off. That said, I'll admit I recently realized I actually had enterprise windows instead of pro so maybe that was why I was never able to get it working despite hours of trying.
Does iOS force updates? How do they do it? Surely the average Mac user understands less about updates and whatnot. I mean, if they had ever (obviously they never will) just let people install iOS on their own hardware I'd have left Windows a very long time ago. I plan on moving to Linux one day though I've realized that's going to be a monumental task on its own.
I've got my own issues and all but windows absolutely infuriates me nowadays. I wish nothing but the worst for it. I kind of want them to do what reddit did and force me to leave
The people aren’t the only reason, apart from their direct damages. There’s also the fact that rampant viruses literally drain the community they are in, and are a harm to the online community as well.
Few of the people we are talking about understand computers, meaning they need to have someone else deal with it, or continue to be compromised. Banking info being stolen means more work for the fraud department of the bank, and the police, potentially even the FBI if the issue is large enough.
And rampant viruses mean larger botnets, more computation being leeched causing more electricity usage. More online disruptions of services, and more general spam from compromised accounts trying to spread the infection.
As for iOS, yes and no, and a clarification point. Yes, it attempts to force updates through deceptive means to get the users consent to install at some random point “tonight” which cannot be scheduled. You can turn this off, though there are many reports of this being reversed for some unknown reason. They’ve also moved to force installing security patches without consent, even if you disable the auto update.
The clarification point, is that iPhones are some of the most locked down devices out there. Even if you manage to get an infection, the majority of the time it’s only able to work within the normal sandbox. On top of that, iOS is one of the “most updated” OSs out there. Apart from the users trying to preserve versions for jailbreaking and related tools, or devices enrolled in certain enterprise situations, you’d be hard pressed to find someone on an old version even a week after a new release.
I'm sorry that you've lost so much work. Although it's kind of irresponsible to leave unsaved work open overnight. Perhaps you could look into applications that have an autosave feature? Alternativly if your workflow permits it do your work on the cloud?
I do my actual work in the cloud. But when I want to just jut down quick notes I open a Notepad window and write them there. Usually it's something I need to remember for just a few hours later. Sometimes it's something I'll be expanding on somewhere permanent later on. It's just the most handy place to write something down quickly. Sometimes I have one such window open, sometimes I end up with 6. I just so happened that night I had some more important notes that I didn't transfer yet. I've got into the habit of saving them now just in case, so I have tons of small text files that I'll probably forget about.
Because we're not looking to change our behavior we're criticizing the decisions made by those that own the OS.
To me, the response comes off as completely missing the point, likely intentionally, and blatantly ignoring the meaning of the person they're responding to.
It's like saying, I wish my favorite show wasn't cancelled and someone replying with why don't you just have a different favorite show?
You are the reason Microsoft has to force computers to restart for the rest of us.
Reboot once in a while, you are to blame for your lost unsaved data.
You're the reason Microsoft has to force it on the rest of us.
Everyone would still be able to shut down without updating, if people actually rebooted once in a while when Windows asked. Instead of leaving it in a perpetual sleep cycle of multiple years, and then blaming Microsoft when things go tits up.
At least the Pro version is still able to do so, since then the user can blame the IT department instead.
I think you mean Enterprise? I don’t believe Pro allows you to completely disable auto updates. Furthest I think you can do is turn them off for at most 2 weeks?
Unless you mean with group policies or disabling services, which I believe is still possible even in Home.
Setting up a GPO with WSUS to localhost will disable updates. But please don't do that. As much as I hate updates, they're very important.
Agreed, and I say that in every one of these discussions. :)
The only time auto updates should be disabled is on machines with an uptime requirement, which should have regularly scheduled maintenance which includes updating their software. And of course any critical security updates should be installed asap even if it’s outside the normal maintenance window.
I agree 100%. I don't like autoreboots, but fully understand why they exist. People, in general, just stopped rebooting regularly. I have disabled autoreboot for a select few PCs in our environment, but I follow up with them within one week after I get notified that their computer updated and they haven't rebooted. Most people in this group reboot within a day or two. I usually have to remind only one person.
They got rid of Enterprise somewhere between 7 and 10. You're thinking of Server
Pro lets you turn it off for 1 week
The computer ain't gonna tell me when to restart. I decide that, not it. And it's not getting regular restarts. Hell, my phone bugs me about restarting after i don't do it for a month, and the fucking notification won't fuck off. Can't bloody stand it
If only there was an option to update an os without restarting it....
Oh wait there is, but windows is a shitty product.
What’s power button right? Do power buttons have rights? Or is it right side of power button?
Not any longer sadly, kinda amazing how windows has that much control, I always thought it was a way to brute force a shutdown when you can’t do anything else
Edit: I have the realized the error of my ways thanks to moody, 5sec hold on the power button forces a shutdown, pressing it once is just a software one
Pressing the power button once does a software shutdown. Holding the power button for about 5 seconds will do a hard power off.
It baffles me how many people don't know that.
My Mom didn't know and Windows was stuck, not even the clock ticking. She had to wait until I got home and powered it off.
Power button has rescue rights. I had to use the power button after Windows forced an update on Friday and my tower just sat there powered on but doing nothing for an hour, no signal to the monitor. Now I feel bad, it was probably just high on drugs.
Linux mint, I just type sudo apt update and I'm done.
I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, philosophically, the user should be in charge of their PC, and updates should happen at a time of their choosing.
On the other hand, people are idiots. Especially the type of people who think they know everything but in reality don't. The type that will search for registry hacks or scripts that disable updates, and proceed to live without any security patches, putting not only their own system/data at risk, but others too.
It's probably a necessary evil that MS forces security patches on users.
What isn't so forgivable is them pushing all the other crap on people, or why the updates take so fucking long on shutdown/startup. That's what they need to improve. Far fewer people would care about avoiding updates if a reboot after an update was imperceptibly different to any normal startup, like it is on Linux.
MS is a $3tn company. They can achieve this if they want to, but they see spending money on Windows as a waste of money - why improve something when you've already cornered the market? It doesn't benefit them. It doesn't make them more money. Windows is dominant either way, they get their licensing fees either way. Improving Windows damages Microsoft.
I have an extra wireless keyboard laying around just because it has a quick shutdown button on it.
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People who shutdown their desktop computer everytime they're done using it are so bizarre to me. Why? What are you trying to protect? I only reboot when updates are needed and otherwise my computer is on 24/7. Been doing this since ~2004 and have never had an issue.
Edit: I'm not saying you're wrong if you shutdown everytime. I'm just saying it's weird to me because it hasn't been necessary since the mid 2000's or probably earlier.
Yup, Also, I hate having a million LEDs lighting up my house like it's Christmas year round. I sleep better when it's actually dark. I make a point to only get stuff that's actually off when I turn it off.
You can put it to sleep/energy saving mode. If you Google how to you can also put it to hybernate. I don't think the original commenter does it, but I recommend it.
Or I could just not do any of that and turn it off. It doesn't hurt anything to turn your PC off. I promise. Especially since standby mode comes with those stupid LEDs I hate, and hibernate takes longer to boot back up then a cold boot.
A shutdown and a fresh start also deletes files that aren't used anymore and the PC does check itself for hardware problems. Starting a PC could take a long time in the past, but my current 7 year old system starts in about 10 seconds, a newer system could start faster. I also turn off all peripherals like monitors and printer etc. with one switch after the computer is off, to make sure there is not a single light still wasting electricity. Standby devices in a common houshold use so much electricity, that it amounts to a lot of money over a year. But I guess we are still in the phase of convinience over climate and people have money to waste too.
Do you also keep your car running all day for when you have to be somewhere and only turn off the engine at the gas station?
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That seems like a bad faith argument, but I'll indulge. Gasoline internal combustion engine aren't made to run indefinitely and have many components that can wear over time and require regular maintenance. Modern computer hardware has no problem with the task and my "newest" computer which was built back in 2016 has run pretty much non-stop for 8 years now with 0 failure. At this point the hardware is more likely to be replaced due to age than failure. The only argument I can see making sense is maybe the cost of electricity aspect; but even then modern power supplies are so efficient I'd be surprised if it costs me more than $10/yr. to leave my PC on so I don't it's a very strong argument.