Definitely not a fan of scat, and I definitely don't want to see it on my feed, but I feel like it's my job as a user to block the stuff I want to avoid. If you guys want to implement a "NSFW+" feature that we can use to mass-block the content that goes past the normal NSFW limits, great, but I don't think it should be banned just because some people really don't like it.
I don't consume this sort of content, but in general, I don't think "democracy" is the best way to judge niche fetishes. Decades ago, the majority would have voted to exclude gay porn. I personally enjoy hotwife and cuckold content. I've been pushed out of communities where the thought of ones partner sleeping with someone else makes a lot of people uncomfortable. When I see the community voting for or against fetishes it makes me uncomfortable, because I wonder when one of my kinks is next.
Voting on content inclusion or inclusion will lead to a tyranny of the majority. Kink acceptance should not be a popularity contest. Instead we should seek a principles based approach that embraces inclusion and tolerance while still staying within the bounds of the law. At the same time we should encourage the lemmy devs to build features that allow users to avoid content they don't want to see so that we don't need a heavy handed top level approach.
kinda surprising to see voting is leaning towards ban. if scat won't be on lemmynsfw, where else is it supposed to be in?
Block the community if you don't like the fetish, but banning scat makes no sense to me.
My favorite instance admin for a reason.
It's not everyone's cup of tea or even most people's, but neither are dicks for most browsing this instance, some still want those around and it's more than understandable, I don't like em, someone is super excited about it though. They probably aren't into titties, I like titties. Id be shitty if they tried to ban titties.
Unless it's illegal or genuinely traumatic seems dumb to ban it, especially considering the first big announcement he made was legally dubious in some areas.
Personally I'd recommend replacing scat with titties or ass and vote thinking if that was on the chopping block. this isn't a do you like question, this is a purge question. lemmynsfwspecialkinks seems wayyyy too long for an instance name imo let's stop this train before it starts and someone gotta make that instance.
Sure and people will ask for ban from there as well, my point was a nsfw community being on nsfw instance makes sense to me.
If people ask for a ban there as well, the admin of that instance can direct them to here. That way, that instance can remain... well, full of shit.
Actually that is not really how Lemmy works. As long as at least one user from here subscribes to a community from there the community is right back in All here. And if no user is allowed to subscribe to something there you don't really gain anything from federation.
What's the issue with scat porn?
Is it illegal or something?
If it's not illegal then on what grounds is it being banned?
Admin over at Yiffit here.
We have a temporary ban on content that is perfectly legal but which could be really weird to remote admins and moderators for at least 2 months in hopes that better moderation tools will appear so that remote instances can hide certain content without having to defederate from us completely.
Couple of questions and I mean this out of ignorance, not hate...
Yiff is like being/dreaming of furries right?
That seems legal but "really weird" so what kind of stuff are you banning?
I'm learning programming so don't expect anything great or even good out of me, but what kind of moderation tools are you looking for? Specific features you want?
If it's property marked as NSFW and it's not illegal i don't understand why banning it..
I'm not in favor of banning things that aren't illegal (or illegal adjacent like loli). It would be awesome to be able to automatically filter things like scat, but outright banning it in my mind sends the message that this instance is not friendly to niche communities. That's my two cents.
Kinda confused why there's a vote on this tbh. Just block the community if you don't like it? That's kinda on the end user.
Like, Imma be real, I probably have the biggest community block list of any user on the instance, but that's mainly because I'm ace and here for the lewd stuff rather than the sexually explicit stuff. I know I'm not the target demographic of this instance overall, but if there's an option for people to filter the content out they should use it.
I'm disappointed to see that voting is leaning towards a ban. I'm not remotely interested in scat, but it isn't a big deal to block those communities, as I was doing before they were shut down.
I guess someone could make lemmyscat.com, targeting both the kink and Lemmy users with feline pets.
I definitely don't want to browse this server (lemmy@nsfw) and come across scat in my timeline. I support banning it. People that enjoy it can set up their own server for it, and server admins can choose to federate or defederate to it.
It’s not for me but who I am I to judge. If it were possible to stop it appearing in “all” that would be ideal but that’s not how lemmy works I know.
As much as I don't like it, its just another fetish. I'd allow it under its own community - are you able to make it blocked by default or an opt-in thing,
VPN Votes not allowed.
My vote is that we ban it here. I think the best solution for these issues is to have at least two NSFW instances. One that's more tightly moderated and more socially acceptable, and a second that's run with a more Libertarian wildboi flair. Business up front, party in the back. Maybe call the other one something like LemmyTrueNSFW, or LemmyWildNSFW, or something like that. This is how Federation achieves censorship-resistance. It allows a space for those on the fringe, while preventing the fringe from overwhelming the normie majority.
I like this option, I agree that while It's not something I'm into I feel like we should not kink shame those who are. Creating a second instance for the more taboo things allows for it to exist but we still won't see it while browsing 'All' in lemmynsfw. But it's there for those who want to subscribe to it.
I guess I have a couple of those, from time to time. Damned if I know when one is coming, though.
I don't like it, but I don't think it should be banned. Why is pissing and piss drinking allowed, but the other end not? I can't believe I'm defending shit (pun intended).
Off-topic, what happened to the rules regarding underage hentai? I saw the voting/discussion posts get purged because "enough drama", but are the rules still in-effect? Are any characters aged up still banned?
The rule was not changed on that. It wasn't contributing to a productive discussion after it concluded iirc, hence its removal.
I mean if we are banning individual fetishes, where do you draw the line...
Not Safe For Life has never to my knowledge conventionally included scat/extreme fetishes. I've always heard it used to describe things like gore, death, etc.
One other issue with voting on weather fetishes are acceptable is you risk the stability of other subs. For example if people recognize that they can get fetishes tagged as nsfl and removed what happens when a conservative group comes in and targets the multiple trans communities we have here stating they are nsfl. And after that they could reasonably expand that to futas. And so on...
It's another of those things where it won't be problem once lemmy develops more.
Right now, if I'm scrolling all, I can get hit with a face full of scat before I can implement a block. Which is a major problem for anyone using anything but jerboa or web, since none of the other apps can block things yet.
Lemmy doesn't have a flair system to auto filter things preemptively (though I think the connect app does it an the app).
I'm not a prude. I used to be a nurse's assistant, so nudity is meh to be, and I've seen more feces than is fair. I've had more feces on me than most people ever see in their life, tbh. But it would be very nice to not have to run across it because someone here made a brand new c/ that I haven't blocked yet. And again, and again, and again.
Hell, all the damn furry futa is at least funny for someone that isn't into the kink. But, for fucking real, I have seen all the shit I want to see in my life. That should be opt in only kink, you feel me? I can't opt out of seeing it the first time. So, yeah, maybe the idea of someone making an extreme kink instance that's easier to avoid since everyone will defederate it while leaving this one alone is a good idea.
Just saying, there are some things that are just not going to be welcomed by other instances. Scat is one that's likely to cause more trouble than it's worth.
I would like to continue browsing all to pick up on interesting slices. I don't terribly mind filtering out stuff I'm not intersted. What I mind is the ridiculous amount of communities being pumped out for every concievable permutation and subvariation of interests.
It’s another of those things where it won’t be problem once lemmy develops more.
Off-topic, but I've seen this sort of hopeful thinking a lot on here, and I'm not really sure where it's coming from. When are you expecting Lemmy development to fix this, and what are you basing that on?
It's a necessary function. It's just a matter priorities and time.
So, manually basically part hope, part prediction, and part projection lol.
I just worry about being too presumptuous. I don't want to crush any optimism; I'd love to see the project grow and improve with new features to better serve the community's needs. On the other hand, I also realize those changes won't happen simply because everybody expects them to.
"Lean on God if you must, but row away from the rocks."
Brooo, we're so getting defederated.
Like, fr, I vote to ban it and this is why. An instance that allows gore and scat is almost definitely only going to be federated with other such instances. That stuff seriously needs its own instance, just for the safety of every other, more standard community. If scat shows in the all feed of another instance just one time, this instance will be instantly dead.
Does it matter if LemmyNSFW gets defederated? I don't really care to see regular stuff on here. I'm here for porn.
Yeah, to some of us it does. I'd prefer not to have to swap between a bunch of identical accounts just to be able to go from checking the subs I mod to looking at tech news.
If you're fine with being defederated, why not just start up your own instance and take on that risk yourself? No reason to have the rest of us get defederated just because you're okay with it.
I think having their own instance would be better for everyone, and that goes for more than just the scat people
I feel like scat content is something people actively seek out if they are interested, and avoid if they are not. So, it is probably better if it was its own thing that didn't end up in the "general" nsfw community, and instead stayed under its own niche umbrella. I don't necessarily have a solution for this, but scat and various other kinds of niche content should probably either have its own community or be some sort of opt-in thing.
It's not something I personally want to see, but I can always block communities I don't want to be exposed to and I'm not aware of any legal complications, so I don't see any reason to ban it outright.
Content that most people consider extreme needs to be opt-in for viewers. Eg I don’t want to see content like this in the new/active feeds. Of course users can block it, but I don’t think that’s enough. Think if a new user joins and sees the new feed filled with content they are uncomfortable with.
Lemmy really needs a way to filter sensitive communities so content like this can be hidden away from feeds/federation unless users explicitly want to see it.
Lemmy very much was not prepared for such an influx of users on short notice, so unfortunately we kinda need to tape and prayer quite a bit of things it feels like. I think a NSFL tag would be good general feature, or going further CWs for specific communities.
Lemmy really needs a way to filter sensitive communities so content like this can be hidden away from feeds/federation unless users explicitly want to see it.
This is really the issue. Having scat appear in the 'All' section of the website probably isn't very appealing to most current or new users. It's not that we should push it to another instance or mark it NSFL (since that's not really what that tag is meant for), but that it should just be marked as a sensitive community (by a site admin, or perhaps by the community admin), removed from 'All', and have a confirmation screen whenever a user tries to enter the community. The "site who shall not be named" had a similar feature.