https://abcnews.go.com/International/xi-warns-biden-china-plans-back-taiwan/story?id=105815520&cid=social_twitter_abcn
China's Xi Jinping told President Joe Biden at their recent summit of China's intention to unify with Taiwan.
Well you're not wrong. But the last time they tried, it was the Vietnamese communists that stopped them. Of course that was on the ass end of 60 years of near continuous combat experience.
I agree about India, but you seem to overestimate Russia.
The populations and economies are just too different.
If PRC decides it needs the Russian Far East and wants it militarily, it's going to take it. Maybe only the southern parts, they don't need all the empty frozen land. Maybe in 20 years, maybe in 40, maybe in 80 years.
And in the very long term, if China subdues Central Asia in any way, then it can get a piece of southern Siberia too, but that's like trying to predict WWII from Wallenstein's times.
Eventually, if China is successful with its expansions, it will turn to Russia for more. I was talking more in my lifetime what could happen if everyone sits on its hands and lets China do as it pleases.
The fact that it was the last refuge of the Chinese democratic republic he fought against for one thing.
Let’s be fair, the ROC under the KMT and Chiang Kai-shek was far from democratic despite their claim to Sun Yat-sen’s legacy.
As seen with Chiang Kai-Shek's preferred ally against the Japanese Empire, Nazi Germany. Didn't work out for him, but if he didn't join the Allies we'd call him what he was, a corrupt fascist warlord whose only saving grace was not being the Qing Dynasty or Imperial Japan.
Communist revolutionary armies don't quintuple their size with volunteers in three years after you technically repelled a genocidal conquest when you rule with the consent of the governed.
Of course, that was then, and this is now.
Chiang is hardly fascist.
Also, bear in mind that Chiang got plenty of help from the Soviets too, and the US, before both countries even fought Japan. Chiang was only glad to receive help when he could.
Communist revolutionary armies don't quintuple their size with volunteers in three years after you technically repelled a genocidal conquest when you rule with the consent of the governed.
KMT was corrupt and had to appease various warlords who allied with them. Mao exploited that inherent division to persuade the population to turn against KMT and Chiang. Mao also convinced many KMT soldiers to defect after Chiang's disastrous Manchurian campaign. There was a AskHistorians thread about it before which explains KMT's collapse and retreat to Taiwan.
The place is a jewel. Have you learned anything about it? You don’t just randomly become the world’s leading high tech manufacturer. They have great land, great resources, a great trading location, great people, great natural defenses… Any country on Earth would flip to have Taiwan.
I suspect China believes it can outpace the economic growth of Taiwan in the long run. If Taiwan’s business elites start to think they’re missing out on that growth by opposing reunification, then you’ll see a political shift in Taiwan.
In Chinese: "it sure would be a shame if I happened to lose control of all these bullets and bombs around my your country."
The PRC has always maintained that Taiwan is part of China and will be eventually incorporated back into PRC. (The ROC had the same position, but with respect to the mainland until 1991.) Taiwan was in fact part of China from 1683 until the Japanese started their imperial colonization of China and Korea, taking Taiwan in 1895. It would be news and a really big deal if the PRC stopped making that claim.
As far as the PRC is concerned Taiwan has always been part of the PRC. That was the point. The Taiwan policy of the PRC hasn’t changed.
It also depends on your personal definition of a "nation" and whether you consider the Chinese Civil War to be over.
Fun History Fact:
Truman wasn't initially willing to involve the US in defending Taiwan from the PRC finishing the job in 1949, but no one bothered to tell them that, and then the Korean War kicked off and he instituted what would become known as the "Containment" policy.
Yeah. This is a dance that the USA and China have been doing for half a century. The agreed upon resolution has been that the USA doesn't declare that Taiwan is a sovereign nation and China doesn't invade in the near term.
My pet theory is that this was said specifically to destabilize the US. As others have said, this is not new. China has been saying this for a long time. But 100% the GOP is going to call Biden weak for not shutting Xi down and instead saying the US supports a "One China Policy " without any critical thought as to what the dynamics are.
This is to fire up the right wing base.
This is to fire up the right wing base.
Is it just me, or are they always fired up?
I genuinely don't believe Republicans calling Biden weak or any similar situation affecting how people vote at this point.
It's not about how people vote. It's about getting people to vote. Emotionally charged people are more likely to vote/volunteer/donate etc.
I'm talking out of my ass by the way, I have nothing to prove any of this.
At this point Taiwan has been independent for a good long time so it’s probably time to recognize that. This comes down to what the people in Taiwan want. I’m guessing they are good with the current situation as it keeps tensions down but sooner or later they are going to have to make a hard choice and the US needs to back them on it. Either they vote for reunification (unlikely but you never know) or they unequivocally identify as not-China and completely independent. In the second case the US and world should be prepared to back Taiwan. What will actually happen? Well, if I were Taiwan, I wouldn’t want to piss of a neighbor like that who is likely to go psycho when you officially breakup. It’s like ripping off a bandaid. I would be terrified of what China will do no matter who is baking me up. Taiwan will have to make a choice sooner or later but I completely understand their hesitation.
No you don't get it people wanting to be free is just imperialist propaganda which can only be overcome by even bigger imperialism. They don't actually want to be free, they're just brainwashed.
China claims Taiwan is theirs, the joke is to flip that and say China is Taiwans. Pretty easy stuff
Edit: And before you say your point still stands, people usually dont care about technicalities when it comes to jokes and memes, unless the technicality IS the joke or meme
Ok, but when someone calls China "West Taiwan", they ARENT refrencing politics, they are meming against China
....after US gets their chip manufacturing off the island.
When the US can make their own chips, they won't be risking defending Taiwan.
I’d say Taiwan serves US geopolitical interests beyond just chip manufacturing. It exists as a separate political entity thanks to the US who intervened in the Chinese civil war to protect Chiang Kai-shek’s military dictatorship. The PRC wants to remedy what they perceive as the consequences of foreign interference in China’s political affairs. That enables the US to use their support for Taiwanese independence as leverage in their attempts to suppress China’s economic rise.
The only way the current strategy of both sides changes is if a major factor changes, otherwise this cold standoff is the most stable place for both sides on the matter.
It could be that an election in Taiwan is won by a very pro-China party - a similar thing led to rapid changes in Hong Kong. Or an American leader changes tactics dramatically because theres no longer an incentive to support Taiwan.
Taiwan needs to be careful to guard against either situation happening.
Differing from many superpowers that came before the US, the US has a reputation of following through on what it says it will do long term, and the vast geopolitical diplomatic reach of the Americans means that for now, China would experience too high an economic cost to try and change this balance unilaterally.
Especially when you consider that Biden and the powerful forces who actually get to decide how "the USA" responds to this are not for humanitarian reasons. "The USA" just wants nuclear launch sites as close as possible to China.
Most of China'a infrastructure is on the coast. We can achieve that with a couple SSBNs lurking thousands of kilometers off the coast.
Bonus points if one surfaces where it can be photographed, but in international water, every so often. Just as a reminder.
Are just following me around? Hey while you're here, are the people of Xinjiang Chinese or not? I just want to know if I should refer to them as an oppressed population or an occupied country?
Oh no, oh gosh. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this but I was told that if I criticized the Chinese government I have to be a Sinophobe.
It's okay, we have groups. And cookies.
It could be that an election in Taiwan is won by a very pro-China party
For some reason, I don't see this ever happening. Even if it does happen, I can easily see Western propaganda painting it as a sham-election or something.
They're just that brazen with their bullshit to protect their interests.
While no party in Taiwan is openly in favor of reunification, there are major parties like the KMT and the TPP that are in favor of building a closer relationship with mainland China. Combined they are currently polling higher than the DPP which is considered to be the “pro independence” party.
So while I would agree that peaceful reunification is not possible in the near term, i think changes in the geopolitical dynamics between the US and China could make it more likely.
How nice. So Taiwan leader can rule over all China. We don't need China anymore. So generous of Xi.
For now. There's already shovels in the ground for the US to make their own advanced semi-conductors
That is gonna take ages and the whole rest of the supply chain is in Asia too. Also all the personnel lives in Taiwan. There's more to chip manufacturing than just buying the ASML machines.
It’s absolutely insane and genocidal for you to wish for the drowning of millions of civilians.
Should China have this ideological adherence to reclaiming Taiwan, and be ramping up for a deadly and horrible invasion for it? No.
Should the biggest industries on the planet and ultimately all technology users depend on the independence of a tiny island nation that has an unresolved civil war with an authoritarian superpower? Hell no.
But those aren't the questions we have to answer. We have to answer insane questions like "what will happen if China tries to seize Taiwan?" When the questions are insane, the answers are never good.
It's the same gloomy logic as MAD, isn't it? The hope is that the threat is enough to make war unthinkable. The insane part is that you have to walk that tight rope indefinitely or the whole thing falls apart.
I'm not calling for it at all. I want the issue to be resolved diplomatically. We can talk about that if you prefer, but you'll have to start us off with some ideas.
Its what is left available to Taiwan if all else fails. They don't have nukes, but they do have (probably) enough missiles to breach the shitty construction of the dam. This is no different than the MAD doctrine.
It’s MADdening that you believe that the US won’t be nuked for giving weapons to Taiwan and directing them to kill millions of people in mainland China. Taiwan doesn’t want to go to war with China and they’ve always wanted reunification. The US wants to divide and conquer China and should stop before it creates a nuclear catastrophe.
Lol ok. If Taiwan has always wanted reunification then why hasn't it happened yet? Were they waiting for an invitation? This is bad Chinese astroturfing.
Lol Taiwan and China have both claimed to be the “real China” but Taiwan is just a small separatist holdover of a civil war that ended nearly 75 years ago. Since they can’t run the show, they’re trying to be a wedge for US imperialism in east Asia. The People of Taiwan are Chinese citizens and the US should stop encouraging them to go to war to destroy themselves and their country.
How petty the mainland Chinese must be if they cannot move on from a small island after three quarters of a century.
Petty is when your girlfriend keeps your favorite shirt after the breakup.
Refusing to admit you lost a civil war 75 years ago and blowing up a major dam, killing 35 million people to stall unification is genocide.
Hey, how about you tell PRC to fuck off and not threaten war? You realize it's been 75 years. That's 2+ generations already, Taiwanese people no longer identify themselves as Chinese, and the ruling party now is not the same dictatorship that wants to reunite with China. No one wants war, but Taiwan does not want another dictatorship either.
Eh, I haven't had an opportunity to ask, but I think they do identify as Chinese. Just not as citizens of PRC, because they are citizens of another sovereign state.
Ok, then why continue lying about it and pretending China has to act against Taiwan to prevent it?
I think the reason the US is lying is because they believe that they can undermine China’s position. They want to damage the country in some way to maintain their status as the sole superpower, but it’s too late for that. China is entrenched as a leader in world industry and attempting to contain them is impossible.
So China wants to be nuked by the US because of not backing down with their aggression in this case?
Some of the Chinese nukes would be shot down in such a course of events - there are systems like THAAD. AFAIK China doesn't have anything similar, so the response strike is going to be more efficient.
There's no rule or law preventing two Chinese states from existing on one planet. You pretending otherwise doesn't change anything.
Wish? The fact you have to put words in my mouth to attempt to form an argument says more about you than me.
What a little loser that you made a whole username for making fun of a politician because he ruffles your feefees. Grow a personality and go outside. Fuck sake.
Like Hong Kong, Taiwan will rejoin the rest of China. We want to believe that Taiwan is some bastion of freedom, but it’s literally just a holdout for the losers of China’s civil war. For a while the US tried to pretend that Taiwan was the real China, but eventually changed tact and has been trying to drive a wedge and use Taiwan as a military outpost. This has been US policy since the 1950s! (Most people in the US weren’t even born yet, and Joe Biden was only 7 years old when the Chinese civil war ended.)
This would be the equivalent of the Confederacy setting up shop in Puerto Rico and Russia supporting them as the “real” United States, then back-peddling while planning to use Puerto Rico as a military outpost. In the 1960s a similar situation happened when the Soviets tried to station nukes in Cuba and the US threatened to end the world.
Just like the US couldn’t be threatened, China can’t be threatened. You can’t hold a country of 1.5 billion people at gunpoint. You can’t destroy the 3 Gorges Dam without China nuking the US. The US needs to pull back on this position they’ve had since the 1950s and stop trying to bully China.
...doesn't China have a "no first strike" rule for their nuclear weapons? :P
As for not bullying China...maybe they should stop trying to bully their neighbors before asking to not be bullied lol
Both China and Taiwan have claimed that they are the rulers of China and only one of them is right. For Taiwan to be a neighbor it would have to cease being Chinese, which it has never done. Taiwan is still officially “The Republic of China.”
Taiwan continues to keep the name because it mustn't give China a cassus belli to invade. Essentially, by keeping their name, they show their support for a "one china policy" and keep the door open to peaceful reunification. If Taiwan decided to formally be a separate thing, the PRC would no longer be able to "peacefully reunify with a rebellious province," and would be much likelier to invade.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-taiwan-passport-idUSKBN25T0JA/
(I don't care for Reuters, but the facts are easily verifiable elsewhere)
The PRC got pissy when Taiwan changed its passports to read "TAIWAN" in big letters and have "Republic of China" in small letters. What purpose would they have in being mad about a name change on a foreign nation's passport (particularly as it de-emphasizes the "China" bit)?
Furthermore, if you look into history, Taiwan got rid of its claims to "all of China" decades ago
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2002/09/10/167505
In Europe there are two states, the Federal Republic of Germany and Austria, coexisting just fine (there's also Switzerland, no government of which ever pretended to be the unifying center of Germany).
That's just a counterexample to shoot down your bullshit without many words.
I like seeing other sides like this.
Feels like posts like yours would be removed on reddit because of how infested that site is with propagandists just supporting their agenda.
