https://novaramedia.com/2023/12/11/whats-up-with-germanys-pro-israel-left/
Germany's anti-Deutsch used to be 'fringe weirdos'. Now their pro-Israel ideology has gone mainstream.
They are trying to transfer the Holocaust guilt onto the Palestinians.
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
They are, and they have been going to jail.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/19/jewish-protest-israel-gaza-washington-dc
In Germany, though, there is "a new kind of McCarthyism" surrounding opposing genocide and war crimes when the perpetrator is Israel.
That's the whole point.
Hi, welcome to lemmy.
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Like this example:
“There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
If you wanted Jews to be secure, Palestine isn’t the place. It is already has its own people, the Palestinians.
Machine-generated summary courtesy of Kagi's summarizer (filling in for TL;DRbot):
Summary: The "anti-Germans" are a left-wing political movement in Germany that strongly supports Israel and criticizes any expression of solidarity with Palestine as anti-Semitic. While they began as a fringe group opposing German nationalism, they have now achieved mainstream success in promoting pro-Israel stances. They focus heavily on depicting Muslims and pro-Palestine activists as Nazis. Over time, the movement has moved away from leftist politics and toward anti-Muslim rhetoric and support for right-wing positions. Many of its stances have now been adopted more broadly in German policy and discourse. Although the group itself may be less influential, its radical anti-Palestinian and anti-Muslim views have permeated German political life. Some former members have even gone on to respectable careers after pushing such views. In this way, the "anti-Germans" have had a significant impact on shaping Germany's approach to Israel and Palestine issues.
Dot points:
- At a pro-Israel demonstration in Leipzig, Germany, flags of Israel and the antifa movement were flown together, showing the unusual alliance between pro-Israel and far-left groups in Germany.
- The anti-Deutsch movement started as a radical left opposition to German nationalism but is now defined by its hardline support for Israel and criticism of any expression of solidarity with Palestine.
- Support for Israel has become increasingly mainstream in German politics, while support for Palestine has been marginalized. The anti-Deutsch movement has found new relevance as a result.
- The anti-Deutsch movement emerged in reaction to fears that German reunification could lead to a resurgence of German nationalism and Nazism. They blamed inherent flaws in German culture and identity for the Holocaust.
- The movement's focus has shifted from criticizing capitalism to attacking Muslims and those expressing solidarity with Palestine as antisemites.
- The anti-Deutsch movement takes an extreme stance, believing that any means are justified to secure Israel's existence as protection against antisemitism.
- There have been attacks on pro-Palestine groups in Germany by those claiming to oppose antisemitism, showing the radicalization of some in the anti-Deutsch movement.
- The anti-Deutsch movement's extreme anti-Muslim positions have aligned with conservative parties' rhetoric on issues like immigration.
- While the anti-Deutsch movement's influence as a leftist group has waned, its anti-Palestinian and anti-Muslim politics have become mainstream in German discourse.
- Some former members of the anti-Deutsch movement have gone on to respectable careers in media and politics, showing how their views have diffused into the establishment.
Well 150 countries are fed up with Israel. The global north’s morals are not the norm.
"80% of the world is against Israel, which is backed by my country, but among them there are countries that are bad and oppose my country for some reason, so I'll support what my country is backing instead"
Israel is much more successful in massacring people than any of the countries you could think of. And please, don't talk shit about other countries when you aren't ready to fight against your country's ruling class. That never ended well. This is literally the reason some Russian "communists" support the war.
Please educate yourself on formal logic.
Support for Hamas does imply support for Palestine.
However, what the original commenter said is that supporting Palestine doesn't imply supporting Hamas, which is true, but that in turn implies an eclectic worldview in which you support a people against a genocide, but not their only means for resisting said genocide, and ignore facts (for example, by reading the 1988 Hamas charter, which is heavily cited by Western media, instead of the 2017 Hamas charter, which is much harder to find because it's inconvenient for the West)
First, elimination of Israel is a good thing. Second, please show me the source.
Indeed, "terrorist attacks" have widely been performed by Palestinians and Palestinian liberation groups. Some were aimless, as they were just the spontaneous expression of the hatred of Palestinians towards Zionists. Some were quite purposeful (and it's not just Palestinians doing that, there were plenty of cases of e.g. terrorist attacks of Ukraine on many people in Russia, the most recent one I remember killed a former Ukraine deputy who defected to Russia, and the blowing up of the Crimea bridge may well be considered one) - with the purpose being anything from assassinations (like the assassination of the minister of tourism by PFLP, and I hope you won't claim Israel's government is innocent and shouldn't be targeted), to raising money, to political demands (the Japanese Red Army Faction hijacked some planes for ransom or to make the Japanese government release prisoners, or to make a point by flying one to DPRK), to perhaps the most objectionable purpose - intimidating Israelis to show that this isn't "their" land.
"Terrorist attacks" shouldn't be equated with each other - they should be looked at in the context of who's leading them, what's their purpose and means. If you reject "terrorist attacks", you're often rejecting the only means of partisan combat for heavily overwhelmed forces. Of course indiscriminate attacks on civilians are bad (though if civilians start shooting at you, you're forced to fight anyway), but, depending on the organization leading them, most terrorist attacks aren't that. There's of course also the wider problem that terrorist attacks can't be the only means towards an end, and don't make sense in a lot of cases. Whether Hamas or PFLP perform them is not up to me, I'll just trust that they know their options better than me. I'm not in a position to teach or moralize them.
I believe that Hamas should eliminate Israel through whatever means necessary. But I do not "support" Hamas, at least not uncritically.
I do. Why not? Do everyone fighting the good fight need to be angels? Sure I wish it was pflp leading the fight but anyone opposing Israel gets my support.
