https://www.npr.org/2023/12/12/1218895581/cats-research-study-environment
More scientific evidence has surfaced to show that while mittens may be your sweet angel, letting her roam outside is also a big threat to biodiversity.
We need to get outdoor cats off the streets. They're Argentine ants with a cute face, which makes them all the more sinister.
OTOH, I have a cat who can't effectively jump onto the bed by himself. Your mileage may vary. :)
I have had cats who live with murderous intent, but then I also have this football.
You're probably solely responsible for the extinction of an entire species by letting that murder machine outside.
Ha. We call our dogs our prisoners. When they go outside they're going into the exercise yard.
House cats are NOT apex predators. Apex means they're at the top and nothing preys on them. Cats are preyed on by cougars, wolves, coyotes, foxes, eagles, etc.
Three letters that keep my cat on a leash outdoors.
F.eline
I.mmunodeficiency
V.irus
Its cat aids, its real, and if caught your mittens is not going to have a good time.
While I definitely lean towards not letting cats roam free (not even possible in our current living situation), I'd say that FeLV and FIP scare me way more than FIV. FIV+ cats can live relatively normal, long lives when living in safe, caring homes with some very basic precautions
FIV is primarily transmitted via saliva in deep bite wounds when one cat bites another, and the majority of those bites occur when an intact male cat bites another intact male cat, so if your cats are spayed/neutered, the risk of contracting FIV drops significantly. With proper slow introductions between altered cats, FIV+ and FIV- cats can live together with minimal risk of transmission.
I only mention this because there's so many FIV+ cats that get stuck in the shelters due to stigma, and wish I could save them all.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feline_immunodeficiency_virus
Yeah, folks gets tetchy about being told they need to keep their cute little murder fluff inside for both its sake and the local wildlife.
And being told we’re poor owners and don’t deserve to have a pet. You should really knock that shit off.
According to my vets, I am a fantastic owner, doing the best for my pet. So, again, you and everyone else who doesn’t like it can get over it.
I don't give a shit about your cat, you could have the healthiest, happiest, best-cared-for, or the sickliest, most miserable, abused and neglected cat in history, that's between you and your cat and effects no one else.
I care about the environment, which is and should be everyone's shared concern and responsibility to care for. Allowing your cat to run free outside is no different than throwing your fast food trash outside. It affects everyone, and while one or even a few people doing it might not make a significant difference by themselves, it's a death by a thousand cuts, and you're one of the people holding a knife
Not every cat is the same. I currently own two murder machines. Any pest in the house is a dead pest. If one doesn't get it, the other one will.
Our third cat can't catch his own breath. He wheezes just rolling over.
While all three are indoor only, I have allowed others to go outside and they proved to be completely ineffectual hunters.
One really wanted to catch crows. I mean really, it was like she could taste it. She would also start stalking them from 50 feet away and the crows would just look at her like "Are you serious right now?" She never did get remotely close to catching anything. Probably for the best, the crows would have kicked her ass.
Her littermate was convinced dead leaves on the ground were helpless animals. I think fluttering in the wind and the tail like stems. He'd do the chatter talk at them and then bring them in the house and deposit them in the living room. "I killed it!" Yes, good boy.
Let's see what the vet says when fluffy gets pancaked by a car or torn to shreds by a coyote. You'd be responsible for that.
oooh, fear-mongering, no one has tried that before.
There are no coyotes on Maui, moron, or any other animals that would attack him except dogs, and all those he would encounter are cat friendly, and I am far from the road so that’s no issue.
Try again, asshole.
edit: seriously, dawg, this island has cat colonies everywhere because they have no predators here. There are volunteers just to feed all the feral cats.
I'll just leave this here
https://www.mauiforestbirds.org/invasive-small-mammals-on-maui-cats/
I didn’t start a fight. I provided feedback about how my cat’s health exists outside your rules with my vet’s approval, and you insisted on being the way you are about it. You can still get over it.
Holy shit, these people are fanatically stupid.
How dare you imply they are over generalizing and exaggerating consequences! To hell with those people downvoting you.
I definitely monitor my cat when he is outside, but that's because he thinks he is safe and I know he's going to make a feast for some coyote if I don't.
I wish he could catch that fat ass squirrel that won't leave my garden alone, but he's about as graceful on his feet as a newborn horse.
That being said, people need to spay and neuter their pets. I live in Houston, and it is a plague here, because people are lazy/stupid.
Anyway, over development has done more to destroy wildlife than any fucking cat, but these people want to blame cat owners.
Must be nice to have so much free time to waste on bullshit.
Right, and it is because people don't monitor their pet cats, and not because of the rampant cat colonies, due to people not spaying/neutering their pets.
You people are bitching up the wrong tree.
I can't believe y'all are so desperate to feel elitist over someone that this is what you settle on.
I’m pointing out that you’re wrong saying development causes more bird deaths than cats. That’s it.
And if you think I’m not for spaying/neutering, oh boy, are you wrong.
And folks like you sure do get defensive at anyone pointing out it’s dangerous - for them and local wildlife - to let cats outside UNSUPERVISED.
You mean when I said wildlife?
A lot more wildlife than birds.
I don't really care what your feelings are, my comments aren't about you.
My comments are about morons blaming cat owners, that let their cats outside.
It is seriously stupid, like voting for Trump stupid.
That's because it's clickbaity bullshit posted to drive engagement. It's not a bug, it's a feature 😉
I adopted a stray recently. She has expressed zero interest in Outside ever since. She just wants love and cuddles. One less on the streets.
People get absurdly angry when I bring out this fact, street cats are pests, and pest must be controlled.
"There were even cows on that list, though they were probably the result of scavenging rather than hunting." I'd like to think that no, house cats took down a 2000 pound cow.
Thank goodness moles, rabbits and squirrels aren't endangered, or my dog would never be allowed outside again.
I've seen a cat win in a fight against a rottweiler so id believe it, if it was a small baby boar.
Predators do what predators do.
I had two cats from the same litter. The female was superfocused on birds, rarely paid any attention to mice or voles which are pretty abundant here in the countryside. She very rarely managed to catch any birds in the wild, but if one made the mistake of flying into the house, it was game over in seconds. She could jump surprisingly high.
The male on the other hand was only interested in rodents. It was like to him birds didn't exist. For yeard he kept our house totally free from mice, roaming the yard and doing his thing very effectively. I'd pay good money to have a cat like him again.
I wouldn't let my cats out in the city, but out here I'll let them live by their insticts. The nearby highway kills a lot more birds and mammals daily than they ever could.
Collisions with cars kill approximately 214,500,000 birds per year in the US.
Cats kill 2,400,000,000.
They very obviously weren't talking in total across the US. Just their property and their nearby highway. I find what they said to be quite believable even with the total amount of birds cats kill across the US
Anecdotes are not data, however. They might think cars kill more, but data shows that nationwide, the opposite is true by an order of magnitude.
You see birds killed by cars on the road because the dead birds stay where they’re hit. You don’t see the ones killed by cats because cats don’t usually leave them there.
Nature does its thing. News at 11.
edit: downvotes are disabled for my instance. Knock yourselves out with that if if makes you feel better. It makes no difference at all.
Only, cats aren’t natural to many environments. When they’ve gotten introduced to new places, they did a lot of ecological harm, and continue to do so. That’s why cats need to be kept inside.
And my little senior citizen buddy will continue having good mental health to his final days by still being allowed outdoors.
Mental health for felines does not necessitate killing other animals. Mine gets sufficient stimulation by just observing and being played with.
Cool story.
Until the end of last year, mine was indoor-only, and had multiple health problems requiring ongoing expenses and treatment, then a change in my living situation necessitated him being outdoors for part of the time. Ever since then, he has gone into almost complete remission, supplies that would last for weeks now last for months, and his vets agree that the only thing that has changed is he is now getting something from the outdoor experience that medicine couldn’t provide. IE, mental health.
He was played with and given attention constantly, and it didn’t matter, we thought he had only a few months left. Now he could have years left.
So he will continue to be outdoors, despite opinions from random people on the internet.
despite opinions from random people on the internet.
I imagine you’re saying:
due to my own cost-benefit analysis: I’m an animal lover, and I love kitty slightly more than birdie, but in a perfect world kitty would be inside so birdie could live safely outside.
This allows for responses to more accurately target your calculation. Hopefully it would feel less personal, though who knows.
But if you dispute #Cat/BirdFacts, then I’m mistaken!
No, I meant it as presented.
My vets and I have all observed that his health has dramatically improved by being outdoors, and therefore the observations, approval and advice of the persons actually involved with my cat are what will be trusted, and the opinions and disapproval of all the angry randos who have had no participation in keeping him alive will have zero weight or importance, because wtf do they really know about it?
And if my elderly cat, who cannot climb trees because his claws are kept trimmed for being indoors, manages to somehow catch a bird, then good on him and he deserves it, and that bird should have used the power of flight, which my cat does not possess. But it hasn’t happened yet, and probably won’t.
That’s what I meant. How any adult here decides to handle this reality is up to them.
Readers only know what you tell ‘em. Your “my kitty” is “generic feline” to others until more context is provided.
It does sound like you would keep generic feline inside, given the veterinarian consensus is reducing the number of free-ranging cats is good for cats and birds. And you go by the vet. Sensible, many would agree.
RE: “survival of the fittest” (e.g. organisms best adjusted to their environment win out, being most successful in surviving and reproducing) - want to be careful not to misapply that thinking to justify human-influenced scenarios.
The scale and impact of cats hunting in environments where they are not native is more an example of humans disrupting local ecosystems than natural selection. Arguing animals are responsible for their own survival against domesticated predators is ethically contentious. But when everything’s natural I’m with ya on the merit-based view of predation.
The randos might be less angry if you were immediately up front about extenuating circumstances. Not all of them! But doubtless some will attack an inaccurate idea of you simply having a personal preference, whereafter you’ll feel attacked for “keeping [your cat] alive.” And that’s no good! Waste of time and needless raising of blood pressure :)
the only thing that has changed is he is now getting something from the outdoor experience that medicine couldn’t provide
Well, your living situation changed too…
When we would take our cat to the vet for various ongoing ailments they’d always ask if anything changed at home. Seems like that might play a factor.
Yes, and him being outdoors when he wants is part of that change. There were no issues with the previous residence. If anything there are problems with the new residence. The vets and I went through everything for years and nothing came up that could be addressed. We have this under control, the decision is made. The cat is still going to be outside when he wants, and after all this I will now encourage him to try to catch the fucking birds destroying fruit on the orchard trees.
I will now encourage him to try and catch the fucking birds destroying fruit on the orchard trees.
Your feelings got hurt by strangers on the internet so you want to actively try to be the bad cat owner you claim you’re being painted as?
👍 you do you I guess.
If your cat is supervised and leashed, sure.
If not, it needs to be kept indoors for the sake of local wildlife.
If you can’t provide your cat with proper indoor stimulation, quite honestly, you shouldn’t have one. It’s a part of responsible pet ownership.
And reread the first part of what I said:
If your cat is supervised and leashed, sure.
Oh, and as for “years left”?
The average lifespan for an indoor cat is 12-15 years.
It’s 3-5 for an outdoor cat.
That’s the OTHER reason for cats needing to be kept indoors OR supervised and leashed/harnessed if allowed out.
It’s 3-5 for an outdoor cat.
Source? My family has had at least 4 cats that have gone outside and lived longer than a decade at least.
My cat is already 19, and now he’s doing better than he was last year. That’s how well I take care of him.
I already read the first part, I don’t care.
Back to getting over it with you.
So you don’t supervise your cat while he’s out, is what I’m getting. Ok.
Then I sincerely hope your elderly cat, who REACHED his age by being kept indoors, doesn’t end up hit by a car, accidentally eating poison or something poisonous, or depending on where you live, eaten by a coyote or gator. As happens to many cats allowed outdoors unsupervised.
If you let a cat out, be responsible by supervising and leashing/harnessing it or have a special enclosed cat run in your yard.
Nature does its thing.
You know how pooping is natural, but we get sick if we poop where we eat?
Cats’ instinctual predatory behavior = natural.
Invasive predators = serious and unnatural threat to ecosystems.
—
…so I won’t hear that line if I catch you taking a dump in my kitchen right 😄
At least I’ll end my session here feeling like I got a good word in for the birds, even if I have to watch where I step 💩😉
Sure, take that win, though I’m still 95% certain that my cat will never catch one with his limitations. And if he does, the only birds in this area are non-native transplants, and therefore invasives, so he’d be doing a service.
Oh shit no, we have so many cat colonies with booming feral populations as it is all over the place. Which is part of the absurdity. My cat will likely kill nothing while going outside to lay in the sun and go pee, while there’s hundreds of outdoor ferals fed daily by volunteers, because the community has decided to be humane and not mass euthanize, only mass spay and neutering when they can be rounded up. The main threat to our native birds are mosquitoes (edit:), which is mostly in the deep uninhabited valleys where people and cats don’t go anyway.
