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Apple isn't happy about India's demand to upgrade older iPhones with USB-C

Apple wants India to exempt older iPhone models from single-charger rules

https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/12/05/apple-isnt-happy-about-indias-demand-to-upgrade-older-iphones-with-usb-c

Apple has urged the Indian IT ministry to make changes to its single charger rules, as adding USB-C to older iPhone models will make it hard for Apple to meet production targets for India's manufacturing and export laws.

Apple wants India to exempt older iPhone models from single-charger rules

Apple isn't happy about India's demand to upgrade older iPhones with USB-C::Apple has urged the Indian IT ministry to make changes to its single charger rules, as adding USB-C to older iPhone models will make it hard for Apple to meet production targets for India's manufacturing and export laws.

81 comments

Ghostalmedia

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India gave Apple 2.5 years notice. And that doesn’t count the time the legislation was being proposed.

IMHO, it’s totally reasonable to say that newly purchased phones should support USB C, even if the phone’s architecture wasn’t introduced this year.

Obi

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That sounds very reasonable, I thought they wanted them to retrofit them on phones that were already sold!

ByteJunk

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Yeah I thought the same, that would be wild.

But for models that are actively being produced, it's fair game.

ferralcat

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And on top of that, the tech they're being asked to use is literally a decade old next year.

Killer

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And apple themselves have been using the tech for over 8 years in other devices of their's.

echodot

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We all know that the way Apple will do this is to just not sell any version of the iPhone other than the USB-C version. They're not going to add USB-C to old models.

Corkyskog

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They might. They either need to make newer models cheaper (not going to happen) so they are at a reasonable price point for the Indian market. Or take a cost hit in manufacturing and still sell the old models.

They are not going to devalue their new shit, that's the dumbest thing ever. It would be like a luxury brand slashing their prices on purses, rather than make a small change to their off brand purses to capture the cheaper market. By lowering the price you essentially stop being a luxury.

They could just leave the market entirely, they only have like less than 4 percent market share. Although I guess 4% of a billion is still almost 33% of 50% of 250 million... so nothing to sneeze at (Jesus India is more populated then I remembered)

echodot

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They are not going to devalue their new shit, that's the dumbest thing ever. It would be like a luxury brand slashing their prices on purses, rather than make a small change to their off brand purses to capture the cheaper market. By lowering the price you essentially stop being a luxury.

What?

Who said anything about them stopping selling the new iPhones? The new iPhone already uses USB-C so they'll just sell that one I'm not sure what your point is

Corkyskog

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Who did say that? I didn't.

My point is the old IPhones sell in that market, while the new ones don't, because of price. So if they want to stay in the market they have two choices, reduce the price of the newer models or pay to retool the manufacturing of older models.

Obviously the logical choice is to pay the retooling costs so you can offer all models.

4L3moNemo

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In this case, I would say – fck Apple. Indians demand is solid. Apples shitty policy of random plugs and industry incompatible chargers shouldn't have been born ever and definetly it shouldn't continue. Usually I'm against regulation by goverment, but in this case it is realy for the benefit of users and enviroment.

Nollij

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It's also not like this snuck up on them. Governments around the world warned them very clearly that they had to get onto a standard. Apple dragged their feet the entire time, fighting it at every opportunity, until it went into law.

I don't know what India's law says, but I suspect it boils down to "All phones sold as new after XXXX date must have a USB-C charger". Apple has the choice to modify the older/cheaper designs, or to stop selling them in that market.

random65837

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Wouldnt be surprising if they just stop shipping the newer phones then. India isn't the EU, most of their smartphones are cheap and low spec, most of their networks are terrible and small bump they've recently had is stil an incredibly small amount as a whole vs the rest of the Indian market.

Honytawk

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If most of India's smartphones are cheap and low spec, then Apple's only market is the older models. They will not be able to sell the newer models.

Ashyr

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I'm not sure why you're generally against governmental regulation, typical regulations are written in blood.

I would argue the government seldom goes far enough

FilthyHands

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Ever wonder why there's no more reasonable sized pick up trucks in America? CAFE regulations incentivize auto makers to manufacture ginormous trucks. I am pro-regulation in most cases but there are some real stinkers out there.

random65837

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Since when? We have pickups of every size. Small pathetic compact trucks like the Maverick, Mid sized like the Colorado, Tacoma, Ridgeline, Frontier, and then all the actual pickups. There was only a short time after the Ranger went away for the second time where there wasn't many small P/U options, they're plenty again.

FilthyHands

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Glad to hear they're making a comeback. I haven't looked at the new truck market for a while so I wasn't aware. I usually stick to secondhand vans.

acockworkorange

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Your small pathetic maverick today is as big as the 1990s F-150 and maybe even 250. And they had similar or bigger hauling capacity that their modern counterparts.

random65837

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As somebody that owned a 92 F150, No the hell it's not! Not even close. The Maverick is a car with a bed.

TheHotze

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It depends on the regulation. Take zoning for example, you definitely don't want a bunch of kids or elderly people living next to dangerous factories, but the laws usually go too far and prevent corner stores in residential areas, or demand way too much parking. Regulation can be good or bad.

echodot

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The big problem with zoning laws is it's far too difficult to get the zoning redefined.

There's a plot of land near me that's on a high speed road, It is an old residential plot but because of the road no one wants to live there. In the past when the houses were originally built it was a quiet road, but it's been upgraded over the years.

It'll be an excellent place for a small shop, and indeed a local shop in that area is desperately required, but because it's zoned as residential they can't build a shop there. No residential property is ever going to be built there, it's been abandoned for 20 years, if one was going to be built it would have been built by now.

LazaroFilm

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My mind goes to net neutrality laws debacle for instance. Yes regulation is important to keep companies in check but they can be abused when applied against the consumer.

random65837

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Which they 100% will be. I was ALL for Net Neutrality, the first time that was huge news, but then started reading up on all the downsides and it'd end like all gov't regulation does, de-facto government created lock in.

TheRealKuni

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but then started reading up on all the downsides and it'd end like all gov't regulation does, de-facto government created lock in.

So you read some propaganda and don’t actually know what net neutrality is. Cool story?

random65837

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If by "propaganda" you mean the bills actually submitted at the time, yes.

JackGreenEarth

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And then it goes too far on other things, like the Kind Online Safety Act, while not doing basic things to make the lives of their citizens much better, like UBI, or more controls of companies to stop monopolistic behaviour. Basically: more regulation of companies, less regulation of individuals. Although some things still need to be regulated of course for individuals, like enforcement of software licenses.

gravitas_deficiency

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The answer will be that Apple won’t sell iPhones without USB-C in India at all. Have fun waiting for like, 3 years to buy a relatively inexpensive iOS device.

sir_reginald

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There's enough supply of inexpensive Android phones that support standard chargers. It's not a problem for consumers if they can't buy older models of iPhones, there are tons of other smartphones.

It definitely hurts Apple to loose out in a market as big as India's. But that's their fault. They had enough time.

sfgifz

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There's a fad in India that having an iPhone makes you a sophisticated person.

I have colleagues who've spent more than a whole month's salary over it. They all use WhatsApp instead of Apple Messages, put on a ₹100 cover they got by bargaining at the railway station they commute to everyday for 2 hours, can't afford the wireless charger, and every 3rd person seems to have one - idk what's sophisticated about such an unexclusive device ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

random65837

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Stupid people like to do stupid things.....

Mamertine

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If this were a small country, yes that is what would happen. In the second most populous country, I suspect that's too huge of a market to just accept as a loss.

Once a customer leaves the apple ecosystem they're unlikely to return to it. So they would lose those customers forever.

Ghyste

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Fun fact for the day: India overtook China as the most populous country at the beginning of this year.

emergencyfood

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Unfortunately, Apple's marketshare in India is tiny, so they can leave without too much loss.

Also, India is now the world's most populous country. :-(

GbyBE

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That also means that there's still a huge potential for growth, before competitors reel in their potential customers. If they let other manufacturers divide the market among themselves, it may be harder to gain market share later.

random65837

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Good, China needs to go down in flames. More and more tech is also moving their manufacturing to India.

And009

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It's a huge market even with a smaller target of people.

ABCDE

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Why so? They have moved to USB C already.

gravitas_deficiency

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But they’re not going to redesign all the older iPhone models to have USB-C. They’ll just stop selling those models.

Edit: and there’s no fucking way that the Indian government can successfully compel Apple to repair every iPhone 14-or-under in India. That is simply not happening.

ABCDE

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I assumed it's new models, not retroactively fitting them, as in newly produced ones.

gravitas_deficiency

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They’re already switching to USB-C for all the new models due to EU regulations.

random65837

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Exactly, it's complete overreach and isn't going to happen. What's been made has been made already. As you said, they simply stop shipping older model phones, and then Indian people will have less affordable phones to choose from. No way in hell Apple is cracking open phones and desoldering ports and replacing them, the cost would make the old ones cost more than the new ones.

Govts always take shit too far.

Tangent5280

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For a market as big as India, with it's up and coming middle class, Mr. Tim Apple would fuck a pig (with consent) on Live TV if it was what it took to keep selling there.

foggy

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Hey everyone, listen I know times are tough, and coming to decisions to streamline production could give you some relief

But, we were really hoping for $2T by 2030, and this really stretches that target thin.

Thorny_Insight

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IMO it's a bit unreasonable to demand them go changing the design of older models aswell. I'm happy that they were forced to switch to USB-C on future models, but I'm with Apple on this one.

ram

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Well, that's not exactly the demand. The demand is simply that if they wish to sell a product in the country, it meets their regulatory specifications by June 2025. Apple doesn't have to upgrade their older models, they could also simply stop selling them.

But if they wish to sell a product, it must meet the manufacturing requirements of the region in which they wish to sell. Hardly a big deal if you ask me.

Blackmist

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How many do they really sell in India though? It doesn't matter how old and crappy your iPhone is, there's a cheaper Android phone. Android is like 95% of phones out there.

emergencyfood

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Apple's marketshare in India is (1) tiny and (2) largely driven by older models. I know 2 people who have iPhones. I know 4 people who have Jiophones (Firefox OS).

TempermentalAnomaly

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I think you're absolutely correct here. I'll point out that they are a luxury product and among the wealthy, highly popular. And while they don't capture a large portion of the units sold, they capture a large portion of revenues. On top of that, Apple's market share has grown by 1/3 year over year while cell phone sales were flat.

None of this changes anything and think Apple should comply, but I see why they might. I guess I don't see a situation where they wouldn't complain. These companies are so emotional.

ram

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India is 6% of Apple's market, and growing.

ByteJunk

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Why is it unreasonable?

This isnt demanding apple to retrofit usb-c to old phones. This is telling them to stop producing new phones with lightning, and instead use USB-C.

This is highly relevant for India as it's a price conscious market, and Apple sells a lot more older models than elsewhere, specifically Europe who passed a similar law but on new models only.

And if a student figured out how to add a fully functional usb-c port to an iPhone X, I'm sure apple can figure it out for an iPhone 14.

sederx

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why? they have more than enough money to do so.

Chakravanti

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Exactly. They can do whatever they want. Force them to either stop doing business or fix their shit now. And don't get started insulting the mushrooms or cows because even they know better than to feed on them.

interceder270

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I don't think its unreasonable. Apple can afford it and it's better for customers.

Win-win unless you're an Apple investor (which you're not.)

Corkyskog

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Apple just wouldn't do it, it makes no sense. They are just pissed because cheaper, older models sell in India and that would leave only the newer models.

menemen

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davysnavy

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Oh my God bro get off Steve Jobs' massive cock

interceder270

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The only people who should care about apple's "happiness" are those who are invested in it.

"Happiness" for a for-profit corporation just means how much they're maximizing profit.

the_q

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Anything that makes Apple unhappy makes me happy.

interceder270

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Yeah. Could you imagine if this was the norm everywhere?

Crazy how people are always cool with lowering their standards but never cool with raising them.

the_q

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Because companies like Apple tell them what standards to have.

bloopernova

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Boo fucking hoo

cheese_greater

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I'm usually happy about the things that Apple is unhappy about. And I'm all in so there's no anti-Apple bias.

They want their products to bind but not protect you, I demand they protect but do not bind me. And I'm not one to compromise

Duamerthrax

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I just don't buy apple.

cheese_greater

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Kolrami

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If I'm understanding what you wrote, I think you actually are bound to Apple. Most people in the Apple ecosystem aren't going to leave it, because there's too much inertia to overcome to leave it.

cheese_greater

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What I mean is I configure everything so it works for me and everything is portable/exportable and contingencies are in place so if they ever start screwing around again to an extent I can't tolerate or mitigate, then at least my data isn't hostage in the process while I reassess.

I don't allow any of their defaults to stand before I start breaking in whatever product/service.

iCloud Photos/Notes/Backup/Calendar/Reminders/Contacts/anything not e2ee in relation to iCloud
Keychain
most stock apps
No storing recovery codes with Apple
sign-in/HideMyEmailwith Apple
PrivateRelay
iCloud CAPCHA thingie
Definitely no iMessage
FaceTime
Avoid Safari except for authenticated things (bank etc)

shasta

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So why even have an Apple device?

cheese_greater

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Good question.

Cuz it does lots of other cool shit that keeps me reeled in and it has some irreplaceable apps and other functions I rely on to manage my life. I just like to have custody and sole access to my data and they don't pay me for said data so its need to know basis.

Octopus1348

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India joins the party 🥳

BeatTakeshi

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C'mon, they made so much money with their proprietary shit, they could eat their hat on this one (well barely the border of it)

ThePantser

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What kind of hat is apple eating?

BeatTakeshi

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iHat I guess

Octopus1348

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Happle

Hattle

A hat made of apple

ahal

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Oh no, not their production targets! Allow me to play this song on the world's tiniest violin.

Nurgle

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Apple told the regulators that implementing the changes would mean it won't be able to "meet the PLI targets," minutes from the meeting state. PLI, India's Production-Linked Incentive scheme, is a major project of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, providing manufacturers with financial incentives for investments and incremental annual phone sales.

The use of USB-C in the iPhone 15 means Apple meets the criteria for the rules with its current-gen hardware. However, the bulk of its sales in India are based around older iPhone generations.

Apple says it can comply with a timeline for compliance by June 2025 if existing models are exempted from the rules. Otherwise, it would need another 18 months beyond 2024 if there isn't an exemption.

faintwhenfree

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I guess fuck apple. They knew legislation and they had 2.5 years. If they can't meet its their problem, pay fines or make usb-c iPhone.

interceder270

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Wow, you get a kickback for ripping people off more.

I have no hope for modern governments.

NYPariah

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Fuck Apple.

danielfgom

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Apple sold comply. Needing 2 years is BS. If they are producing say that iPhone 11 in India, just solder in a usb c port instead of lighting. How hard can it be? They are the same size.

LrdThndr

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The pcb footprint isn't the same. Changing the port isn't as simple as just soldering this one instead of that one. The pins are in a different order. Changing the port requires redesigning the PCB that the port attaches to. In a larger device, maybe you could create some kind of internal adapter that can solder to the lightning footprint but provide a usb-c port, but there's just not enough room in a modern phone.

Plus, even though the USB portion of the circuitry may be the same, the port does more than just provide a usb interface. There's also headphone functionality and other things on there that have to be adapted too, or the phone will have less functionality than it did and people with bitch that apple broke their headphones when they changed the port over.

danielfgom

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Surely it can't be that hard to re-engineer? Can't they take the port from the existing 15 and adapt it to the older models they are still building new? Even if it took 1 month to adapt, surely that would be enough time?

Evotech

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Like literally very hard on that scale.

trackcharlie

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Then apple shouldn't be an anti-consumer piece of shit