by the screenshots it looks like I've done plenty
Voyager is a copy of the Apollo UI. He's entirely right when he says he's already contributed significantly.
I don't blame him for being grumpy, but I also think it's legit to clone a decent UI. As Voyager matures the UIs will diverge.
Ya like I empathize with him but I know if I refuse to allow peopleto continue using somethingthry love, they find a way around it. That is the techie ethos, at least it is to me. Seize the means of production hehe
He is becoming a bit stuck on the whole Reddit situation. He keeps sharing nostalgic posts about Apollo. It sucks what happened, but it’s time for him to find a new gig… I know he likes pixel pals, but that isn’t for me. I did pay for his mobile html inspector, but it’s buggy and not well supported.
On the one hand, nice jab. Unfair since he wasn’t interested, but get his jollies where he can, I guess.
On the other, he knew longer than most that Reddit was done. He can pivot to Lemmy at any time.
Based on this https://reddthat.com/post/8711097 I don’t think he has any interest in Lemmy
Thanks for the link. I didn’t think he’s in the least interested in Lemmy. Unsure why he’s upset that someone else took the ball that he wasn’t interested in and ran with it.
Think about it. If you’d given so much of yourself over to crafting and honing an app like Apollo over the years and all that happened, happened… would you not be a tad deflated and exasperated?
I don’t blame him. Let him cool off for about 5 years. He’ll see it as a tribute one day.
You're right on all counts. It really is a tribute to Apollo's design, and I hope he sees it that way someday.
While I'd be exasperated, I'd like to think that I'd also be mature enough to realize that Voyager simply does what I didn't want to do. I'd like to think that I wouldn't be pissy about it. I might be wrong, but I'd like to think it.
100% this
He was also the voice of the fight against the API changes, which I’m sure took a toll too. His reputation was dragged through the mud and wild accusations thrown his way. He probably wants nothing to do with app dev, let alone app dev for a Reddit clone.
Also this comment.
I don’t think he is planning on making a big deal out of it or anything, but he does clearly not really like it.
Interesting. I could see him getting upset if it was monetized but I agree that it makes no sense when he has expressed zero interest in doing it himself.
He needs to do his business or kindly remove his cheeks from the throne. I'm disappointed with his comments even though they don't concern me in the least. I don't think i rver got my lifetime/platinum fee back, be calling Apple soon to get that cleared up if it isn't too late
Edit: i needed an extra $40 so this works out perfectly
Because there's a stark difference between "playing ball" as it were, and essentially trying to make an identical ball without permission.
I think people on this site are a bit too used to open source projects you can just fork and use based on their license. This is not the case here.
All that being said I don't think Christian is going to take any negative actions against the project; if he was going to, he probably would have done so sooner.
Please explain what actions he could take?
Unless someone stole his source or assets there is no action to be taken.
Why couldn't he do what Narwal is doing?
Edit: he basically did what Reddit did and everyone's cheering his nobillity or whatever. Interesting 🪳
I think people on this site are a bit too used to open source projects you can just fork and use based on their license. This is not the case here.
But the voyager dev has not seen or used apollo's code to build voyager. He has done everything from scratch only taking heavy inspiration from Apollo. Christian has helped indirectly by being the one to develop the UI which serves as inspiration but considering that voyager is not a competitor to apollo, in my opinion he has no right to be outraged at the fact that it is a looklike. He is free to not contribute to voyager and it is true that he has already contributed a lot indirectly but him getting angry or upset at the fact that the UI is pretty similar makes no sense to me.
And a lot of that UI was requested and suggested by redditors along the development of the app. Christian said as much in many of his posts.
Also much of Apollo was influenced by the Alien Blue UI that Reddit had already taken away (and how I got a bunch of years worth of free gold).
A ball is a ball. The idea to make a spherical object cannot be copyrighted. Unless the Voyager dev somehow copied Apollo's source code, there's not a bloody thing that Christian can do except grumble and snark.
Honestly does response really mean he’s mad or anything about it? Voyager is obviously inspired by Apollo, but any developer who does UX on iOS should inspired by good iOS UX. I think people may be reading into it to much. He already indicated that he was not going to port Apollo. If anything I’d be irritated that people keep asking him more than anything.
That was more of a question, forgot the ?. Anyone know for sure. Its just ironic cuz it looks like Apollo XD
He is on Mastadon and posts a lot actually. I know he was a huge Twitter user so makes sense I guess. Though not sure why he seemingly has no interest in Lemmy as a Reddit alternative. Maybe just burned out after all those years working on Apollo I guess.
This was taken from the r/ApolloApp subreddit on Reddit, using a modified version of the Apollo app
Wow, pretty clear how he feels about it. But also he made plenty of money of Apollo and then just shut it down and refused to open source it. So I don’t feel particularly inclined to change my behavior here.
Edit: All these people white knighting a dev that made millions off his app.
Why would he have any obligation to open source a project he was shutting down? If he made the code open, that would be a kind and generous gesture. Not an expected and assumed action.
and then just shut it down
He "shut it down" because Reddit intentionally made it impossible to continue. He had no control over that.
refused to open source it.
Why is he obligated to open source it?
I didn’t say he was obligated to open source it. He gains nothing by keeping it closed. If he had open sourced it I could still use it because I have a Reddit API key. If he open sourced it, it could be converted to work with Lemmy. But he effectively burned it down.
He doesn’t owe it to me to open source it but I can still think it was a shitty selfish decision.
He also gains nothing from open sourcing it
People need to stop having the expectation that everything should be open source. It shouldn’t, nor will it ever be
It costs him nothing and makes thousands of people happy. It contributes to the open source landscape which he built on heavily. Search his Reddit profile for open source mentions and see for yourself.
Well maybe when you write your own insanely popular and lucrative software you can choose to open-source it
I have open sourced software and contributed to open source software. Bet you haven’t. Sure is nice for you to get the benefits of open source with Voyager though isn’t it?
He is not obligated in anything but it shouldn't suprise him or be sour about other devs stepping in to do what he doesn't want to do. It doesn't help that he acts like this is done out of malice even though it's not.
I mean, he provided a great app for free for years. Why should he open source it, just because he also earned cash with it? As far as I know he was also in talks with premium members so that they could get their money back but I’m not updated on that. And of course he shut it down, the app essentially became useless.
Well now we have multiple great FOSS options instead of one or two dominant paid apps. I was a happy Apollo user, but the current state of things feels more in line with the ideals behind Lemmy. So maybe his actions led to a more positive outcome than if he had kept on going like people wanted.
Here are my takeaway. Christian does sound slightly miffed at the fact that Voyager has copied much of the look and feel of Apollo. Even though he has not contributed any code directly to the Voyager app, he has indeed "contributed" to it indirectly. I highly doubt Christian will go after Voyager app in a legal manner. He definitely would have a legal standing to do so but that would alienate his support from the past Apollo community that has moved onto Voyager. There is just no reason for him to do so. I suppose I can imagine a crazy scenario where Apollo IP switches hands to another company and that company decides to take legal action against Voyager but that seems highly unlikely. In retrospect it would have been nice if developer of Voyager basically got permission or just simply asked Christian if it's okay to use the look and feel of Apollo in writing. That would have avoided any awkwardness or ambiguity.
There's approximately 0% chance of that happening. Christian made up his mind, he's free to do whatever he wants. And we're free to do whatever we want short of actionable real lawsuits. Time will tell but the genie's outtathe bottle.
@christianselig@mastodon.social Can you share some clarification on your thoughts on the Voyager app?
@ChristianSelig Sorry, not sure if the original mention went through on Lemmy or not
You can’t copyright the underlying idea. You can copyright the specific expression of that idea.
Both novel fonts and computer icons can be covered by design patents. Icons are only covered, however, when they are displayed on a computer screen, thus making them part of an article of manufacture with practical utility. Screen layouts can also be protected with design patents.
Not that it actually matters at all though.
I don’t believe there is fuck-all he can do about it, unless it’s somehow directly lifting code.
Voyager is built from the ground up as a web app, not even possible to directly lift code from Apollo
Seems like it does not, but it also seems like Christian isn't really taking action against it.
He's a smart guy and he wants to move on. He should do that and people should leave him alone but when he puts himself on the record, its fair game.
Interestingly I can see them all on my instance with Voyager. Is this a new feature? They show as removed in red but still visible.
