After I made a few jokes in the comments, I shifted.
One fascinating aspect of Lemmy is that it won't solely be the mods or admins choosing instances they associate with. As a user, you can too, isn't that pretty cool? Let's say in the future you find yourself disagreeing with what a particular instance is promoting or allowing. You have the freedom to join another instance instead. It's empowering to be able to switch instances as a user; just like that meme I imagine dramatic lemmings exclaiming “I’m leaving those gate keepers at X”
This concept signifies that you shouldn't become too attached to the identity of your accounts on a specific instance, which is probably a healthy mindset anyways. It also means that on Lemmy, everyone, including users, admins, and mods, has the flexibility to choose how and with whom they want to associate. Some instances may prioritize user privacy or choose to exclude certain types of content that contradicts their core beliefs. While some may label it as gatekeeping, it's important to recognize that people naturally gravitate towards communities of like-minded individuals.
What's really neat is that as a user, you don't even need to seek approval for this. You can create multiple accounts and join multiple instances, where all that’s required is for you to behave in a manner aligned with the code of ethics or conduct defined by the community. Ultimately that means the power lies in the user's ability to switch instances, to find the best home for themselves. So there is no need to worry what other instances are doing and it adds an interesting dynamic to the overall experience.
I'm really hoping that someday we'll have a process to enable migration like a DHT and a user private key that allows them to send out a message like "i was user@instance.a but now I'm user@instance.b"... I heard talks about cross-fediverse account linking (maybe like keybase?) So hopefully something like that
Man, what would be perfect! Because as far as I see it, it’s one of the few inconveniences of federation on the user level, and that kind of aliasing would totally solve it.
My main problem is, that the community I started gets less exposure now. That would be fine, if it was just people on instances like lemmygrad, where people congregate with whom I won't get along, anyway. But the beehaw people are not bad folks.
Heck, even an alt account of a tankie on a different instance might behave completely differently when they're not associated with the tankie account (hence no peer pressure).
With how things stand right now, I can't even do mod things remotely without bugging the community out, so while I personally am not tied to any instance, the community is, and right now, I'm hampered, too, whenever I wear the moderator hat.
I hope there's gonna be solutions for this some day, that let us move instances around. Communities are the reason people don't go elsewhere, it's probably also the reason many redditors don't leave that place.
It's unfortunate. I got yelled at for saying fascists and Nazis should be deplatformed. Someone literally tried to "whatabout if we did that to LGBT people" me. I'm trying different instances in good faith, but the ones that hold that kind of logic aren't going to last long.
Well, see, nazis hate Jews (and people of color, and leftists, and…), and LGBT people, uh, well, you see, they uh… anyway you can’t block one and not block the other. See what I mean?
/s. Also, fuck off nazi punks.
Ah gotta love that argument
"We can't deplatform Nazis, we need to be a tolerant group."
"They literally want us dead and are doing their best to make our existence illegal, tolerating that is not an option."
Tolerance is a peace treaty, and the more people who understand that the better.
Maybe look at figuring out how to host your own instance? I've got mine running on a 2 thread, 1gb ram server that'll cost me less than 10 usd a month. So far it actually seems to run rather smoothly.
Then you get to choose who you federate with.
Did you use an Ansible role or docker? Is maintaining a manual federation list easy or a pain?
Also on a VPS with same specs. Used docker to set it up. The instructions feel like they are not fully fleshed out, especially as someone who never used docker, but it was enough to get it up and running.
Manually adding communities is a little bit tedious. Some overloaded instances make for difficulties. For the last few days it is impossible to subscribe to lemmy.world communities and even the ones I've previously subscribed to aren't federating properly to my local instances. Also I'm unable to subscribe to any kbin magazine, but I don't know if that is a whitelist or ratelimit issue on kbin.social side.
Thanks -- I'll try to deploy to a Proxmox container or an ARM64 cloud instance via Ansible. No need for Docker.
I did that, have a small instance and now with instances starting to not get along with eachother, it's actually a nice bonus to be able to just add any community from any server.
Jokes aside, I feel like if the dopamine hit of merely browsing Lemmy and finding posts and communities you like, and enjoying good debates does not exceed the hit for defederating everyone, then you're doing it wrong.
Few things compare to the dopamine hit of actually participating in a conversation with people
Especially in a smaller community like this
It's pretty chill
How well does it work in practice? Is that on your home LAN or a real public server instance? How much storage and growth for serving just you?
I have my instance publically available, and been using Lemmy through it since. I have a couple of local communities (non-private) that I hope people start using, but hard being discovered, it seems.
Started out with 1.6G usage day one, and since then I have grown to 1.96G.
Yup. I was here originally, went to beehaw, they defederated from lemmy.world where most of my subscriptions were… back to lemmy.ml lol
Funnily enough I started on Beehaw and when they defederated I went to Blajah
I'm here for a meme time and hopefully some communities that were popping off in Lemmy World
Blajah's pretty chill
Edit: Don't get me wrong though, I agree with their decision I just wanted to still be apart of communities I had already decided to join.
They also defederated from sh.itjust.works, but I got a community to care for here, so I just made some "alts".
The Beehaw announcement about defederating from sh.itjustworks struck me as very histrionic by the mods about defending their space. The vibe started getting weird after the defederation.
I personally have had a lot of fun in sh.itjustworks but I’m mostly subscribed to meme communities.
I love the fact that even here, the mods having power over nothing gets to their heads.
Really has that reddit flavor, you know?
scratching arm
"Where's the karma man, I need my karma.
I gotta make my points higher than anyone else, how else am I supposed to prove I'm better than other people"
screams shit posts into the void
Neocon/trumpers/racists are coming on various federated lemmy systems. Once there they are posting rando crap and pushing people to ignore the basic requirements most lemmy system admins have setup. No hate, no bigotry, no racism.
Beehaw didn't defederate because .world is a cesspool. There were a handful of idiots trolling, using .world accounts (and sh.itjust.works), and Beehaw cut contact until the mod tools are up to the task.
Yes, the behaviour of a few hurt a large number of people, but they knew no better way to solve it. It's also not a permanent defed, just a bandaid fix until the tools are better.
I'm new to the fediverse, but isn't it sort of shooting themselves in the foot to defederate the biggest instance so far?
The entire value proposition of the fediverse is that you can defederate rather than being stuck under the same roof as you would on a centralized platform.
The only people I see complaining about this are on the defederated instances, the Beehaw users seem to be generally happy with the change.
…the Beehaw users seem to be generally happy with the change.
Maybe? I honestly don’t know, but it seems like it would be hard for them to tell…? If I understand things correctly, Beehaw defederates (what a word…) and now no one sees posts / communities from, say, sh.itjust.works, right? So no one really knows what they’re missing if they’re on Beehaw? Please correct me if I’m wrong, as that could easily be the case.
Federation is a two way street, and requires the link to be severed in both directions. The BeeHaw community won't be able to see what's posted by the communities they defederated, but unless those communities also defederated BeeHaw, they'll still be able to see posts and comments from BeeHaw users.
In other words, if BeeHaw users were unhappy with the defederation (and willing to talk about it, of course) we could see them posting about it on kbin for example. I personally haven't seen that though- their community was apparently pretty exclusive before, so it stands to reason they'd be happy with it continuing that way.
No, Beehaw users don't see any content posted by any member of the cutoff instances. These servers might as well not exist, for Beehaw users.
Big instances are a positive in the sense that probably more people are willing to help maintain it
But it's really bad in the sense that, technically, one person has ultimate power over all the communities and users on the instance
Spreading out is the most optimal, so that when one goes down (which has happened many times in the past) another can take its place.
Big == bad, and also partly the reason why these two instances got defederated
They are curating their instance in a particular way which is the very thing that the fediverse and lemmy allows for. Some people are butthurt that they aren't included.
The slightly more detailed explanation is that there has been a big increase in bots and trolls and due to a lack of moderation tools they opted for defederating with instances that conflicted with their goal. That goal seems to be an easy going and tolerant community. By nature this goal means that it will be a smaller community and for some reason that has angered people.
Honestly, reading the comments of some out there regarding this issue. I'm starting to think that they did the right choice.
It doesn't take long to find fairly rude or insulting content regarding this.
Most people have no reason to care if a small instance decided to sail away.
It's disappointing because I think this platform is already turning into reddit in term of tone/aggressiveness.
And it's not even just comments, it's upvoting memes that are genuinely rude or targeting a specific community. I don't like the way this is going.
I completely understand why people would want a tighter instance. I started using Reddit significantly less awhile ago because a good chunk of the content and comments were either misinformed, malicious, or both. I'm hopeful that large instances can foster friendlier and healthier cultures, but right now I'm seeing so many people willing to make excuses for assholes and blaming the people that don't want to deal with those assholes.
Most people have no reason to care if a small instance decided to sail away.
They weren't a small instance though. They had pretty much established all of the default subs and then when they had like the top 10 largest communities on all of Lemmy they decided to start threatening defederating servers, closed their registration, and taking the largest communities away from them. Pretty much right as Lemmy was starting to build up some momentum essentially the largest instance was like "time to establish dominance and flex our power"
They've apparently defederated from 400 servers and still have 4 of the top 10 largest communities. Like yeah defederation is a tool of Lemmy but their using it like a threat and now they are demanding other instances follow their lead if they want re-federated. Then they try to boohoo about how running the largest subs with 4 mods is infeasible with the current tools and that's everyone else's fault.
Like Lemmy is barely off the ground and there's already power mods and they are already trying to control the whole thing.
397 of those are spammy Mastodon instances and 1 is Lemmygrad. You can just say they defederated from the 2 other biggest instances.
They are curating their instance in a particular way which is the very thing that the fediverse and lemmy allows for. Some people are butthurt that they aren’t included.
But we also are allowed to laugh at them, right?
Seems to me like they're not really fit for the fediverse if they are just gonna defederate everyone, but whatever, they have every right to do it
They aren't defederating everyone. They are selectively defederating the instances they don't like. Or selectively federating the instances they do like. Which is exactly how the fediverse is meant to work.
If you like the instances they don't like, or vice versa, then you should make your account on an instance other than theirs. Which is also how the fediverse is meant to work.
They already defederate more than 400 instances https://beehaw.org/instances
Maybe they immediately defederate an instance if they don't like some users
I don't mind that they defederated a random Mastodon instance called "rapefeminists". Almost all of these are from some list of bad Mastodon servers. Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works are the only controversial ones (and temporary)
The ability to defederate anyone is literally what defines federation. There is no "the fediverse" unilaterally, that's the entire point.
I hate to see that people are so disturbed at what others are doing on another community@instance that simply blocking it on their account isn’t enough. Nonsensical. And the logical conclusion is producing nothing more than a Reddit clone with many of the same weaknesses.
Yeah they’re just doing it temporarily because their mod team can’t handle the influx of 60k bots and trolls over the course of a week with the current state of lemmy mod tools just because Reddit decided to off itself in a grand and public way.
But just like Reddit drama, feel free to make a judgement without the facts and spread rumors based on hearsay. It’ll really help them want to open back up ASAP when we’re all over here like “hurrr fuk u quitters durrrr”
New to Lemmy,
Which instances would everyone say is the least reddit powermody? (I'm sure none is the answer, but if you had to choose)
Probably lemmy.ml, the official instance.
I know they allow some instances that sole purpose is to hate on liberals, which is annoying to see so many aggressive political posts (any extremest is annoying), but they are easy to block yourself.
Beehaw is good, but they de-federate EVERYONE. I see posts from the admins there nearly daily talking about new instances they are de-federating from today. They also disabled down-voting, and community creation.
I think it's awesome that they are disabling downvoting. One of the worst things about reddit was that comments were downvoted and authors deleted their comments because of it. All because of sensitive snowflakes.
And as for defederation, they have 100% right to do what they want to protect their community. It's a community that is used to being disliked or hated. It's a very good thing that they can have their own popular instance on the web without being forced to moderate hateful posts.
Put it another way, should they be forced to moderate hateful posts so you and I can enjoy seeing their posts? I think we are fine without it, and specially knowing that they are happier this way.
Beehaw is lovely and everyone is free to do as they please, but I genuinely think everyone on social medias should be striving for something like what Beehaw is. It's a pipe dream, but trying to aggressively foster positivity and counter outrage is just good hygiene. Negativity breeds negativity and it's extremely difficult to keep spaces positive, but I think there's also a path dependence here that has made the internet so much more toxic than it needs to have been, even off of other social medias which have encouraged that exact toxicity for the ease of clicks. It's frustrating seeing all the misrepresentations of what beehaw is, out and about, but oh well. Appreciate the levelheaded view on the defederations.
Funny, I would think the person deleting his comment due to downvotes is the sensitive snowflake.
It's because of the karma system on reddit. It's easy to start caring about that and then the downvotes matters.
I guess here on Lemmy it doesn't actually matter.
Cool. I signed up for the right one then.
It's wild browsing Lemmy and it's full of users that think reddit wasn't biased enough in one direction.
whoo lawd.
People are wary of alt-right folk taking over Lemmy like what has happened with most alternative social media. Maybe too concerned, who knows
The first people to get kicked off of reddit are the shit stains that no one likes. It's to be expected. Of all the reddit alternatives, the fediverse is the least extreme, IMO.
Fortunately we are now in the voluntary migration period, but it's only comfortable for those of us that can stomach the less desirable elements and primitive UX. It's then up to the rest of us to make the place tolerable for normies, if we choose to do so.
I wish the Lemmy instances would realise the ultimate ideal isn't just deferated instances but federated logins too - in combination!!
So rather than being signed up to 1 istance plus an alt. You can just be logged into Google/FB/Twitter and access all the sinstances.
