https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/21/jill-stein-2024-presidential-election-green-party-candidate
Stein is latest in a series of mostly leftist figures to announce candidacies with the potential to erode Biden’s core support
What happened with her? She seemed okay when she was running a few elections ago and had some support, but then went a bit off and I stopped following her.
Apparently she received some funding that was traced back to Russia and is effectively acting as a spoiler candidate.
I didn't. I refuted it with just as strong a claim as they made. if you think you can get them to provide a source, go for it. I happen to know it's untrue, so I don't care to bicker with them about it.
Source: your ass
All you liberals have is a picture of her at a table with Putin as if Democrats you vote for haven't sat at a table with Putin before
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/26/facebook-russia-trump-sanders-stein-243172
It's a well-established fact that a part of her social media campaign was funded by the Russians.
To be clear: I'm not saying she necessarily did all this in cahoots with Putin. Russia funded divisive ads that boosted Sanders too. Regardless, Sanders quit the race whilst Stein did not. That means she acted as a spoiler candidate, where a vote for her means it's more likely that a republican candidate wins instead, instead of the democrat candidate that a green voter is likely more aligned with. It's an unfortunate effect of the two-party system. Nonetheless, those effects are well-known and Stein had a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected. She knew this, but decided to remain on the ballot anyway. Her candidacy therefore did help Trump win the election.
Did you even read the article? Facebook presented no proof of this and you just take it as fact.
Sanders quit the race whilst Stein did not. That means she acted as a spoiler candidate, where a vote for her means it’s more likely that a republican candidate wins instead,
i can do this too!
as if Democrats you vote for haven’t sat at a table with Putin before
Such as? Apart from, you know, people who were president and were doing it because presidents generally meet other world leaders?
https://images.app.goo.gl/mnWN3T5Rhi7Rs8Dr5
Bro holy shit she's secretly working for Putin wow
So the U.S. Secretary of State met with a world leader?
You do know Anthony Blinken does that all the time, right?
That's not a very good example.
You're pretending that meeting with Putin as part of her official duties is the same as associating with him socially.
Explain what the event was and how it proves Jill Stein is working for Putin. You can't.
she's a presidential candidate. i don't think there is a meaningful difference in stature, but there is in substance: she never exchanged a word with him or shook his hand, unlike the fascists and fascist-enablers you're defending.
Wow. She somehow got herself a seat at Putin's table, then she sat down quietly, politely ate her sandwich, then got up and left without ever saying a word or interacting with the people at the table?
How unlucky she must have felt to find herself such an awkward situation. Egg on her face and all that.
Her job at this time was to lead the foreign relations of the US. This job entails meeting many years of state who the US has serious disagreement with. It is a part of the job. This is not at all the same as going to dinner for fun
If you like the ideas of the Green Party, vote for them at the local level. The fact that they don't seem to want to govern at the local level is enough for me to ignore them as an option.
This needs to be said more than anything else.
Politics NEVER changes from the top down. You don't elect some absolute newcomer who circumvents all the normal paths and then completely revolutionizes the country. (At least not in a stable, functioning society.) Politics in the US happens from the ground up. Not top down.
If any third party was serious about changing society, they would start at the local level. Then, after proving that they can enact meaningful change and bridge the divide between the huge political span that Americans hold, they would sweep their state elections and federal elections.
All of these pie-in-the-sky parties who think that they will win the presidency and then somehow enact society-changing legislation (_the president doesn't make laws!!!_) are either fools or charlatans.
vote for them at the local level.
They only run in a handful of local races. I've lived in both a red state and a blue state- Indiana and California- in multiple districts and I have never once seen a green party candidate on the local level.
That is literally my point. Ignore them until they seem to want governance as opposed to only seeing them in national headlines tilting at windmills. It's worthless.
If you like Stein's platform, voting for Stein will decrease the likelihood of you ever seeing such a policy implemented. If, say, a state rep. runs on a Green platform, they would likely get my vote.
Cool. I really hate the English use of "you" when "one" is really the word one wants. But when one uses "one" as opposed to "you", one sounds crazy.
I honestly think a lot of online defensiveness arises from this construction.
I'm saying, it sounds like I'm saying "you need to do blah cuz you're wrong about blah", when I would prefer it to be read as reiterating my earlier point of "if one wants to see Green policies enacted, one would do well to ignore Jill Stein."
Gayle McLaughlin used to be the Green Party's best example of what they could do at the local level, until she left in 2016 to vote for Bernie Sanders. I'm fairly certain she is the outlier.
Right. I do believe that many members of the Green Party are good political options. It's just they as a party don't rally around them. They only seem to push for the presidency. I don't see how they can hope to accomplish anything when they seem to shoot for the moon every four years, and only manage to spoil things.
Until I start seeing good options on the ballots from the Greens, I will just continue to hope the progressives win the dem. primaries for my local seats.
They only seem to push for the presidency
This is the key indicator and red flag that they are a clown party that isn't serious about politics. They're in it for the attention and the money.
They can't run local level candidates without funding. All you do is complain instead of help.
I'm a voter, my friend. I can complain about a party all damn day. If you think that a political party is going get a dime from me before they can even convince me to vote for them, you have strange spending habits.
https://www.gp.org/featured_officeholders
They do focus on local elections, you just don't hear about it because for the most part no one cares about local politics.
It's not that I don't care about local politics. You sending a link that's relevant to other people's local politics is completely irrelevant to me. Until the GP option is common on local ballots, not just 5 featured ones, I do not want hear about a presidential run.
By the way, I do commemorate you on your outreach and activism. You're getting shit on in this thread, and you're still politely getting your links out. Good work.
And they can run presidential candidates without funding??? What the heck are you talking about?
It's easier to raise awareness of the campaign, and yes they historically get much more attention and funding.
We certainly do, but you wouldn't catch me voting for that Russian stooge after everything that went down in 2016.
The federal government doesn't control elections. You handle that at the state (or county/parish/whatever) level. At least here in Oregon, people can bring measures to the ballot by petition rather than waiting for the legislature to do anything about it, and given two party monopoly, they aren't going to do anything about it for you.
Support and donate to a party that does support ranked choice voting and they'll be able to run state level candidates
I don't think it's going to matter what party supports RCV. Once it's the law of your area, candidates will be running in an RCV election whether they supported it or not.
How will RCV be implemented in states without ballot measures? Have to vote for a party that will implement it.
So the Dems then, their voting rights policy has moved towards at the very least making it much easier to switch to a PR system of any kind.
voting rights policy
The John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act has literally nothing to do with ranked choice voting, you are talking out of your ass.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/us/politics/green-party-republicans-hawkins.html
https://apnews.com/general-news-65e9d5d001dfd10c86ca9ab37e53e159
https://www.ktvh.com/news/montana-news/pac-promoting-green-party-candidate-has-gop-ties
Yes. Yes it does lol. The GOP routinely bankrolls the Green Party to try to prevent Dem wins in close races. It’s basically the only purpose of existence for them today.
Ok, Venmo me $1,000 and I’ll give you the deed to the Golden Gate Bridge. I actually own it. I give you my word.
And you have to take me at my word because you said you do.
Not this shit again. Our country literally might not survive another Donald Trump presidency, which is what you're helping happen by supporting a 3rd-party candidate when we have a 2-party system.
It's called priorities.
vote for whoever you want, guilt-free
i do this now. the only decision i have left to make is whether it's going to be jill stein or cornel west.
It was a joke. But functionally, you're throwing your vote away. If you care so much about 3rd-party candidates, instead help us pass ranked-choice voting!
If you care so much about 3rd-party candidates
honestly, i don't. i vote because it takes like no effort, but i vote for people i actually want to win. i'm not terribly invested in whether they do, though: every politician i've ever voted for who won turned out to be a terrible disappointment.
help us pass ranked-choice voting!
no, thank you. i don't want that system any more than the current one.
Oh you know so much about third party politics, tell us why did Bernie run for president in the Democratic primary?
i don't see the point of this question. it's clearly rhetorical. if you have something to say, say it.
theres no expertise needed. we can ask him why he chose to run as a democrat.
"There's no secret that I think that the Democratic Party has not been vigorous enough in standing up for working families. I've said that repeatedly and I say it again," Sanders told Seven Days. "On the other hand, I will also tell you [there are] some great people in the Democratic Party that I work closely with. But right now, it seems to me the most effective and practical way to go forward is to participate in the Democratic primary process."
you don't need to know anything about so-called "third party" politics to know that if you count a vote for one person as another, that's illegal and it is not the policy to count green votes as republican votes.
This is a weird comment. It's not "so called," It's actually called third party politics. And Bernie is the longest serving third party politician I think ever, at least in modern history.
I don't believe there is any way Biden will be re-elected. If for no other reason when he finally dies of old age who would want kamala running the show.
This is as bad a take as people saying there's no way he can lose re-election. Pro or against, betting POTUS (who has the best healthcare in the world) will die in the next 4 years is the longest of bets. Also, no one votes based on who the successor might be. Lastly, he's healthier than Trump for fuck's sake...
Dude is like 80. Math doesn't lie and the best doctors in the world can't stop time. Statistically it's time to dig a hole. He won't be re-elected, but if he were there's no way he's got another 4 years left kicking dirt.
the best doctors in the world can't stop time
Ok but life expectancy literally directly correlates with the quality of your healthcare
Understood. He's already 8 years past the average life expectancy of a American man. The writing is on the wall.
Never forget that Jill Stein was at the same event and at the same table as Putin and that traitor Flynn
this is decontextualized propaganda. if you click the link and watch the video, the explanation is benign.
Why don't you do everyone who can't watch a video at the moment a favor, and explain how it is decontexualized?
She happened to be at a table with a world leader at a large event. Guess who else has been at a table with Putin? Most recent US presidents and countless other politicians.
Yeah, actual world leaders. Who the fuck is Jill Stein besides a failed Presidential candidate. What an insane comparison.
and countless other politicians
No, we can count them. I specifically recall seven (eight?) Republican lawmakers, including Rand Paul who personally delivered a letter to Putin, visiting Moscow on July 4, 2018. Of all days.
https://www.npr.org/2018/07/06/626664156/gop-senators-spend-july-4-in-moscow
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/08/rand-paul-delivers-letter-to-trump-from-putin-766743
https://www.npr.org/2018/08/09/636982295/is-it-springtime-for-putin-and-republicans
Dems literally tried to pass a law that would incentivize transitioning to it but ok.
Why let facts get in the way of a good "both sides same!"
I used to hear people complain that Stein sat at a table with Putin and I assumed it was at a charity event or state dinner but it turns out she was a special guest for the 10th anniversary of the Russian state funded TV propaganda network RT in Moscow.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/guess-who-came-dinner-flynn-putin-n742696
if there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.
good rule of thumb but if I'm sitting at a table in Hitler's Germany, am I supposed to start throwing knives in the middle of his propaganda gala?
“They did offer to pay my way and I said, No thank you.”
Sounds like a VIP to me. She was also sitting at the table with the keynote speaker, Michael Flynn.
Until now, Stein hasn’t offered many details about how she came to be there or what happened beyond saying it was “a great opportunity to lay out some of my foreign policy proposals and get Russian reactions to them.”
So she wanted Putin's approval on her foreign policy?
Oh what luck! She bought a ticket and ended up next to those people. She must have been so surprised!
If that's true, is that supposed to make it better? She traveled half way around the world to celebrate the anniversary of a Putin propaganda network.
This is implying Jill Stein doesn’t know she is helping Republicans with her failed 3rd party run.
She had a successful career as a physician so no, you're making that up. Anyone who is saying she has money that's where it came from. You all have no evidence she's getting Russian money, it's pathetic.
Sorry... are you saying that doctors all feel they're rich enough and don't ever lust for more money?
Evidence that Jill Stein is taking money from Putin, it's a ridiculous claim with no evidence.
You think "rich people don't do immoral things for money, because they're already rich" don't you?
the greens are his opponent too. a vote for a green candidate doesn't help the republicans or the democrats.
And who do you think might consider voting for a Green candidate? Certainly not republicans. There is significant overlap between the democracy crowd and the environmentalism crowd. Thus, a significant chunk of green voters would otherwise be democratic voters.
then i guess the democrats better shift to capture some of them green voters if they want them.
That attitude is precisely why we were stuck with Trump from 2017-2020, and why the country is much worse off now because of it.
I voted for Gary Johnson is 2016 and let me tell you, I learned from my mistake. It seems you have yet to learn that lesson.
Wow, her chance of winning is so high. And won't tip the results toward the right wing at all And pigs have wings
Something something Russian check is in the mail Jill.
Totally not running as a spoiler, nahhh. Not good ol Jill Spoiler Stein! She just wants you to Send A Message™ (at an incredibly important time that has lasting repercussions if you actually follow through.)
Here's an idea, if you actually gave a shit Jill, why not lead the charge for ranked choice voting!!! Put your damn face all over the media when it's not an election year so you can actually push for positive change. At least then you'd stand a chance and people could actually vote for you! But no, that's not the intent. The intent is to syphon votes from Democrats again.
Her last campaign went heavy on ranked choice (as all green party candidates have been) but the green party has to run candidates to retain ballot access and therefore retain members. Campaigns are also a great way to promote issues ignored by major candidates (such as rcv) but the press has not been kind to third parties since ross perot so its not a surprise most people are unfamiliar with green party platforms.
in 2023 post covid her tepid vaccine skepticism seems like some major baggage (along with 2016s brutal coverage) and I wouldn't be surprised if she was more picking up jimmy dore style dumbass voters this time around and less acting as a spoiler. Her reputation is so toxic at this point that it does seem like the green party is throwing democrats a bone here.
i think she'd be just as happy to "syphon votes from" republicans. i think she wants all the votes she can get and doesn't much care who your second choice would be.
Show me a republican who would vote for the green party, and I'll show you a very confused and lonely magic crystal and energy healing enthusiast.
Of course they don't own the votes, but you vote to get an outcome. If you're voting for someone third party who has literally 0 chance of winning, but actually agree with some of what the Democrats want and not much at all of what Republicans want then the only outcome you get is the party you agree with least winning because you wanted to send a message to the party you partially agreed with.
the only outcome you get is the party you agree with least winning because you wanted to send a message to the party you partially agreed with.
it's not about sending a message to democrats or republicans. it's about who i want to win. also, it's really hard to tell which party i agree with least.
That's what I thought the first time as well. It turns out that who you want to win means fuck all in real life. It's a bit like saying "I don't want my arm to be broken" when you fall on it. I'm sure you don't, but if you care about how it heals you'll go to the hospital and get a cast put on it, even if it's uncomfortable.
And to me, it's easy to figure out who I agree with least. One of them actively wants LGBT folks dead, and the other one doesn't actively want that. Everything else could be exactly the same and it would still be braindead easy to figure out.
I wouldn't count on the Democrats to keep genocidal maniacs from your doorstep. better to get a gun and join a local resistance movement.
I'd rather the people that don't presently want genocidal maniacs killing me and my friends be in office than the genocidal maniacs themselves, and you must recognize that it is, in fact, one of those two choices that are going to win.
if it means so much to you, I live in a swing state. the state penalty for selling my vote is $5k. that's the federal fine, too. put another 10k on top for my troubles and I'll vote any way you like.
they're not the same with one exception tho. they're both deeply bad In similar and unique ways. neither is acceptable.
Green Party will always run a candidate. Just be thankful their candidate is the charmless husk of a moron that is Jill Stein.
As someone else mentioned, Jill is a great Green party candidate for Democrats because she sucks. She's not that young, has Russian baggage, and isn't the new face that could make the party more popular. The philosopher dude, West, seemed a bit more dangerous, but Stein being their nominee drills in the fact that there are no viable 3rd parties. The real strategy has been that of the DSA, where they promote their own candidates within the two party system. It's both realistic, and far more effective than throwing your vote away.
The only people who will vote for a known spoiler like Jill Stein are to far gone to have really been potential Biden voters.
Why is a diplomat sitting next to someone a Russian connection? It's literally their job to try and get along.
Stein is a doctor not a diplomat, you bag of hair.
Must suck to get your paychecks in rubles
Fuck off. Useless piece of shit.
Isn't this how you communicate?
It doesn't matter what they are. It's a picture. Get more than two people standing next to each other or you are too stupid to listen to. Convincing people takes intelligence. Not name calling.
You're right about that person's demeanor. But you are wrong about this picture. It's not that easy to be seated at a table with putin.
I'm not saying it's easy or hard. I'm saying that it takes more than a picture to prove conjecture.
You kiss your dad with that mouth?
Earnestness is wasted on someone pushing a bad faith a narrative as you are. You're just here to be an edgy contrarian for whatever junk motivations you might have. Disrespect is a 2 way street
I stand by my assertion that you're not only a bag of hair but also a saucer of wet mice
The funny thing about baggage in politics is that it needn't be based on truth or an actually immoral act. Plenty of politicians lose votes and races because they did something that prudes consider scandalous, but younger people don't care about. A ton of the reasons for people disliking politicians are either based on lies, or something that's unimportant.
I hear so many lies or half truths about politicians I don't like either, but still vote for because they're the best option. It's like people purity test by telling a lie when they don't need to in order to make their point. They then accuse the person who points out their lies of holding a position they do not hold. I don't like lying, even about people I hate. I want to dislike people for good reasons, and wish others did as well.
You mean the Russian puppet Jill Stein? I'm pretty sure the Republicans are already doing that one.
You know what would be amazing, if a third party candidate would run and then demand policy position concessions form the Democratic nominee in exchange for dropping out, rather than running through the election and risking a Republican presidency.
The green party is routinely funded by the GOP. Their existence is to be a spoiler and pull votes from Dems to swing races towards republicans.
They’re already doing what they’re being paid to do.
That's kinda what the WFP does?
They have a sort of tacit agreement with the Dems where they'll run their candidates in the Dem Primary pool and then both will endorse the winner, and then they'll only compete directly when there's no chance it'll throw a race to the Republicans.
I think that's the only rational way to interpret her run. Even she doesn't want to run through.
Edit: I checked her record on previous runs, and omg I was so wrong...
i haven't decided who i'm going to vote for, but rgiht now i like jill stein and cornel west.
I felt this way when I was 18 also. I voted green and Bush II won. I live in California, so the electoral college essentially means I still voted for Gore. It really doesn't matter unless you live in a swing state.
I'm confused as to why you're a third party voter who is against ranked choice though, it's really the only chance we have at being able to meaningfully vote with our conscience.
Bush II won
he was installed by his daddy's friends. we could have all voted for jill stein in 2000 and it wouldn't have mattered.
I’m confused as to why you’re a third party voter who is against ranked choice though
in the system we have where we vote for people to take positions of power, i will vote for the person who i want to win that. if i have a chance to change this system, we will be eliminating positions of power. i don't care to change how our masters are chosen: man need not be ruled.
Then why vote at all? Why would you want Jill Stein holding power over you? Dismissing the only chance you have to actually vote for a person you want to win seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. But it's becoming more and more apparent that you live to troll, so I guess that follows.
Don't bother this dude literally spends all day spamming political threads with garbage on Lemmy.
But it’s becoming more and more apparent that you live to troll, so I guess that follows.
this is just a personal attack
Dismissing the only chance you have to actually vote for a person you want to win seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
if i have the opportunity to advocate for a differenty system of choosing masters or advocating for a system with no masters, every minute i spend advocating for the different system with masters is a minute i'm not working toward the system i actually want.
Then why vote at all? Why would you want Jill Stein holding power over you?
it takes literally no effort and i like to do it. in an ideal world, i don't want jill stein or anyone else to hold power. so long as this system exists, i'm not sure i want anyone else, but i'm honestly torn between her and cornel west right now.
