The people who called us conspiracy theorists and Putin lovers for saying all along that it wasn't Russia will never apologize or acknowledge their mistake, and they'll swallow the next obvious lie without a moment's hesitation.
Kind of weird question maybe, I'm up unreasonably late, but is there a term for the thought process that leads someone to a probably true conclusion (such as the US, Norway, and Ukraine collaborated on the nordstream demolition) due to inference/pattern recognition/intuition, without undeniable evidence?
Really though it's frustrating that I can't show the receipts on something so blatantly obvious, I feel like if I encountered someone who really wanted to believe Putler did it, I'd have to resort to fuckin, slapping it into them lol
Most turbo Libs aren't well meaning people who got duped by some super convincing propaganda. They're smug, willfully ignorant assholes who subconsciously know half of what they say is total bullshit but they really WANT it to be true. You're not ever going to convince them cuz they're not obliged to abide by the truth.
In that case I want to punk them in the eyes of any observers, so the same questions apply imo
no I didn't need to see that right before bed :|
True it's a form of conjecture but I like the term @Philosoraptor gave, since "abduction" differentiates between conjectures in terms of simplicity and likeliness, so for example "Russia blew up nordstream" and "NATO blew up nordstream" are both conjecture but the latter is a simpler and likelier explanation.
You might call it a kind of abduction (as opposed to induction or deduction), which is inference to the best explanation.
That's a good one, I'm not sure I've heard of that one before but it's probably the best fit!
They swallow the consent manufacturing whole and call conspiracy theorist anyone who doesn't, then it's reveled that it was all lies just like the "conspiracy theorists" said and they "acknowledge" that they've been bamboozled (without acknowledging that the peoples who told them they were were right) and swear that they won't fall for it again, then they fall for it again.
I think its more that they believe they had the best information they could. They'll see it as a mistake or a blip in their otherwise good research/sources.
The United States did this, full stop. If Ukraine did it then the EU is fully naked and unprotected.
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Yeah this is just setting up Ukraine as the fall guy. I still think it was really the US and Norway, like Seymour Hersch said it was: https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream
Genuinely, if this was Ukraine then the EU coast is completely naked and anyone with a boat can fuck their infrastructure up. You can tell the EU knows this story is bullshit because they're not doing huge investigations into security. Libs still buy it though.
If the state department told liberals that a unicorn blew up the pipeline, they would believe it
we need a c/cryptids for the juche unicorns!!I still think it was really the US and Norway
As a Norwegian I agree 100%
It's the exact sort of shit that the demented old cold-war fossils who run our military would get on board with lol
i showed my lib coworker this and they fr did the "concerning, looking into it" meme like 
Weird, I was expecting a "This proves Ukraine attacked a NATO country, time to invade Ukraine" response!
i showed my lib coworker this
how do you have the patience? I gave up on this years ago. it always ends with me "looking crazy"
To stop telling the truth for fear of looking crazy, this is a nineteenth type of liberalism.
Frankly I wish i'd been more public and out of pocket with my predictions these last couple years, because I stood to gain a lot of cred when they all came true.
The only one I’ve been wrong about was “Russia isn’t going to invade Ukraine, y’all need to calm down”
I had such moment rained on me once, my coworker suddenly said to me "Did you hear? Trujillo is dead"
I was like: "Is that news? he's dead for like 60 years already"
He: "Wait, who?"
Me: "Rafael Trujillo, dictator of Dominicana"
He: "Who? I mean Robert Trujillo of Metallica"
Me: "Who?"
Also turned out he's still alive. Robert that is, Rafael is thankfully still dead.
I don't believe this story. I think it's a limited hangout to cover up the real details of the destruction by US and Norwegians, reported by Seymour Hersh
They will never admit that it was the US, but just moving away from "Russia bombed its own pipeline" is a big deal
That narrative never made any sense, anyways. Like, how did even the most credulous westerner explain that to themselves?
Ze evil Ruzzian orcs, incapable of logic due to their inferior brainpan: "ah, yes, I shall bomb my own pipeline to force the effeminate Europeans to buy oil and gas from the US, this is sure to lead me to victory."
Like, what's the framing there? That Russia blew up its own pipeline to get people to be mad at Ukraine for cutting off their energy supply somehow? And then the only spin at all was that they just had a single journalist who nobody knows by name and hasn't been relevant for 20 years post about it on a website nobody's heard of behind a paywall?
Mark Ames logic: I am very smart, I tell you Putin will never invade Ukraine -> but… Putin invaded Ukraine!! -> Since I am very smart, Putin must be stupid to invade Ukraine -> since Putin is stupid, he is probably stupid enough to blow up his own pipeline
It took Seymour Hersh to get on RWN for him to shut up about this completely stupid argument of his.
Ze evil Ruzzian orcs, incapable of logic due to their inferior brainpan: "ah, yes, I shall bomb my own pipeline to force the effeminate Europeans to buy oil and gas from the US, this is sure to lead me to victory."
I can hear Yugopnik doing his 'ze evil Russian orc' voice in this whole sentence.
Maybe it's that Putler decided to teach Germany/the EU a lesson by blowing up their own ... Idk . It's so dumb to even think about, I can feel my braincells dying in real time. NATO so obviously did it, I can hardly imagine the level of delusional propaganda brain needed to believe otherwise.
I believe the story was supposed to be that it was a false flag by Russia, done to frame the US and make the EU states angry enough to not help the US/Ukraine.
The current US Secretary of State literally wrote a book about blowing up Russian gas pipelines. There was always only one suspect here.
Also wouldn't be the first time the US blew up a Russian undersea pipeline. Has been happening since the Soviet era and at this point is a tradition.
I don't buy it. 6 schmucks just rent a sailboat and some deep sea diving equipment? It's a scapegoat. The only country both capable and incentivized to pull it off is the US. US officials and Biden have said many times they would destroy it. They just can't be seen as responsible for directly attacking Russia and Europe.
If it wasn't the US after all that grandstanding, the world needs to be ridiculing the Biden government for incompetence. How can you brag about being able to shut down a pipeline, send a fucking fleet for a week, then – during the same week that you're patrolling the seas – get beaten to the punchline by some guys on a sailing trip hoping to relive their youth and find themselves in a changing world that doesn't understand their gruff humour.
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This is diversionary propaganda in my opinion. The goal is to hand over blame of the attack to Ukraine so it doesn't harm the US in diplomacy with Europe and Germany going forwards.
Oh and we're supposed to believe that Ukraine can pull this off but not be able to get the Crimean Bridge?
Convenient this out a week after the article saying that the USA gave the its time to surrender talk to Ukraine
Could you send some sources for the claim that the USA are telling Ukraine it needs to consider surrendering?
Okay yeh I seen this.
I think this is just referring to negotiations for a ceasefire or end to the conflict but not a full surrender of the Ukrainian government no?
It's also difficult for me to gauge how serious these reports are. They could be psy-op work by other side. Perhaps to convince people that the yanks are down to negotiate and then blame Russia when it inevitably does not materialize. I could be wrong, but it seems to me like neither side has any real incentive to negotiate for the time being. The US and Ukraine may be hoping that Russia also bleeds themself enough from attrition on the front lines that they are eventually content with just the Donbass and Crimea. I'd be very interested to see whether or under what conditions Russia would actually come to the table. What incentive do they have now? If the US gets to the point where the situation for Ukraine is so dire that they are willing to get negotiations going and push Ukraine to accept giving these territories, then why would Russia in that situation not simply also have no incentive to negotiate? Why not push up to Kiev? I guess the main obstacle there and possible source of WW3 style crisis would be if there is a nuclear standoff as Russia pushes all the way through Ukraine and the US starts setting nuclear-use related red lines.
You just need to watch Germany reaction to those revelations, or rather, their complete lack of reaction, to know it's bullshit.
Exactly, they angling the move of saying: "it was a rogue agent of Ukraine". Which is smart in that it is obviously more believable than the narrative of "Russian bombed their own pipeline and a key point of leverage in negotiations with Europe".
But yeh it is still very funny as a narrative.
Don’t have the video link with me, but 3 weeks before Russia invaded, Biden said “if Russia invades, then we will put an end to Nord Stream”, a reporter then asked “how exactly?” and he said “I assure you we’ll be able to do it.”
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
The UK. Cucked to both unwavering Atlanticism towards the USA, and a monarchy. Left the EU for the stupidest of all possible reasons. Sent Boris Johnson to sabotage peace deals in Ukraine. Terf island. It just goes on and on.
It's honestly hilarious, they are like few months away from writing short letters "Help president Xi, i'm being held hostage by US government and forced to sabotage politics of my own country"
The UK is definitely the answer. And worse, people are totally, willfully blind to it.
I remember pointing out where most of the money was coming from for leaving rhe EU (it wasn't Russia, it was American libertarian think tanks, software companies, and healthcare companies) as well as the money that was spent against Corbyn on things like the 'Integrity Initiative' smear abd disinfo campaigns (US gov, UK gov, Facebook, US & UK arms manufacturers, Saudi gov) and people still said 'I don't know about that, why would America care? The papers say it was Russia before the very same people complain about how American our media has gotten.
People complain about the culture war shit and how it feels like an American import, but if you point out that right wing American think tanks and orgs (from TPUSA to evangelical anti-trans orgs) are funnelling a shit loaf of money here you get blank stares and muttering about how it's probably because we're so similar to the US.
Our prime minister is a de facto billionaire who has US citizenship and didn't even live here a lot of the time before becoming PM. Keir Starmer, after being a loyal dog of the British security state for years, regularly met with intelligence chiefs in the US long before he was head of the Labour Party. MPs as a whole I've met tend to love the US and have ideas about moving there 'one day' and the smarter/wealthier ones have stock portfolios full of US healthcare companies etc that are lined up to further privatise the NHS. I knew MPs who took paid trips to the US to form working groups with what would have been the Hilary admin before and after 2016 to study, I shit you not, electability, which of course meant building a Democrat-like party whose job it is to completely kill off the left, not to mention all those nice US lobbyists they got to meet.
But again, if you point that out, people look at you like it's some far out conspiracy theory. The very same people who today complain about America lying and dragging us into the Iraq War are the same people who argue that America doesn't have any control over our foreign policy today.
don't think Rishi Sunak has US citizenship but there is this green card/permanent residency scandal:
You're right, it was permanent residency. I misremembered, probably in part because the yank immigration system makes even less sense to me than the British one did when I was trying to navigate it with refugee orgs. Thanks for the correction.
I think the fact that the UK spawned the US makes the cucking even more embarrassing. This is your child, you made this, and now you just follow every whim
Tbf with the UK, they were only strong because of their empire. The moment they lost that, they pretty much became a backwater European country.
Poland. We want to be western Europe for over 1000 years, been fucked by them countless times in the meantime but still don't learn.
Clear bullshit, right?
If Ukraine could pull this off, I could pull this off. I refuse to believe that international infrastructure could be so vulnerable.
I mean to be fair if you can afford to be a WH40k fan you probably have the resources of a mid-sized Eastern European country.
a six-person team that rented a sailboat under false identities and used deep-sea diving equipment to place explosive charges on the gas pipelines
I doubt I could do it without getting caught, but the fact that I could cripple Europe's economy with a sailboat and a few explosives is terrifying.
Even that story is bullshit, because the boat they tracked as being the rented one is relatively small, and they'd brought on several thousand pounds worth of explosives.
That's something a person could viably become. I think the point is that there was a lack of institutional power or actual military equipment or anything else beyond the reach of an individual being used here.
"But thousands of pounds of explosives"
Yeah, that's probably the hardest part, but it's not like any of it was particularly artisanal.
The HCOB Eurozone Manufacturing PMI came in at 43.1 in October 2023, down from 43.4 in September and compared with a preliminary estimate of 43. This marked the sixteenth consecutive month that the Eurozone's manufacturing sector has been in contraction territory, and the sharpest in three months
Won't know until in a few decades it all gets declassified but my bet was always a US Navy Special Warfare team, aka SEAL team. That is who the US uses for such operations. Previous week there had been US Navy units doing exercises in the general area. The level of hostility, type of aggressive narrative control, and how key US outlets were already standing ready to suppress certain details made it suspicious from the start.
The US uses the same playbook again and again, makes people suspicious even when the US might not have been involved in events.
You would be surprised what you can do. Most of the time the only things that prevent people from doing actions like this are societal convention or the feeling that you have too much to lose. These fears are compounded by copaganda that convinces you that detectives will ultimately find out that it was you that committed the act. The truth is that anyone who is knowledgeable and possesses certain resources can perform acts like this with only a small group of people and get away with it, maybe not always with a clean record though.
all the targets i would want to 
are high profile enough that they'd have the competent spooks looking into it
like if you get a militia together you can probably liberate a concentration camp but nobody is getting away with that
I mean it's still a state. Lot easier to forge all kinds of documents and get stuff if you'rea already a state.
The amount of explosives and specialist diving equipment required to do this is actually not trivial.
The idea half a dozen dudes did this in a small yacht is laughable.
The nato ships doing “exercises” to “train” for exactly this type of operation that were in the exact area about 2 weeks beforehand is the immensely more plausible explanation, which points to the UK and USA, probably with the cooperation of Denmark since it was just near to their waters and observation area.
They're really pushing for that Punished Zelensky arc, aren't they? 
To be a friend of the West...
Can't wait for his memoirs to come out in 10 years, written by a mansion on Lake Geneva, about how he was betrayed by the libs and to whine about how the West didn't give em enough weapons of mass destruction.
i mean they're coordinating their army of sheep pretty hard against russian positions
i mean they're getting mowed down in the thousands but they've pointed them in a direction
This is the liberal playbook though. They did this with the Iraqi "wmds" and every CIA coup ever.
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link to an archive of the full article: https://ghostarchive.org/archive/kwUkH
looks like they’re scapegoating a lower level special forces ghoul who is already on trial for botching a separate failed operation. They’re claiming he acted without Zelensky’s knowledge lmao
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POV: You are a ghoul who has outlived your usefulness to the fascist government of Ukraine. Lmao
I feel like there's some cursed German word to describe this as 'poetic justice' doesn't seem quite adequate.
he acted without Zelensky’s knowledge lmao
of course he did. Zelensky isn't his cia handler
Are you complaining about the article or the comments? Most people already agreed a long time ago this is BS since the authoritative Seymour Hersh article came out it was discussed heavily.
If you mean this shitty article then yeah OP title seems like he is agreeing with it but I am pretty sure they were just posting for content, either way they're not the majority. The consensus is the US did it, not Ukraine or anyone else.
The purpose of the whole effort to shift responsibility for this attack on to Ukraine itself has become apparent with legal shenanigans like this: https://strategic-culture.su/news/2024/04/23/uk-insurers-refuse-to-pay-nord-stream-because-blasts-were-government-backed/