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Trump admits ‘various people’ saw ‘papers and boxes’ brought from White House

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/10/trump-judge-rejects-classified-documents-trial-delay.html

Former President Donald Trump faces the prospect of multiple, separate criminal trials in 2024, as he seeks the GOP presidential nomination.

Trump admits ‘various people’ saw ‘papers and boxes’ brought from White House

“Of course they did! They may have been the boxes etc. that were openly and plainly brought from the White House, as is my right under the Presidential Records Act,” Trump posted on social media.

78 comments

Imbrex

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How do people consider voting for this slimy ball of human waste?

FoundTheVegan

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The holy trinity. qAnon, Fox News and the Bible (but not the woke parts where Jesus was a communist)

Twig

•

Reminds me of a song

Rakonat

•

(R)

That's literally all there is to it, after 30 plus years of conservative media brainwashing people.

rayyy

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Don't forget Putin had a hand in there, along with his cyber operations and GOP/NRA cash.

Ghyste

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To own the libs, of course.

Igloojoe

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I have seen two of my neighbors flying the Trump flag. I feel its like flying the confederate flag. A declaration that you are a racist evil POS.

pottedmeat7910

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That kind of behavior is like taking a giant dump on the front lawn and thinking the neighbors are jealous.

Digital_man

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Unchecked white privilege.

RobertOwnageJunior

•

More like unchecked propaganda.

CoderKat

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Because they are bigots. They genuinely want to hurt "those people". They are afraid of being called out on their bigotry, so like to see people in power act the same way. Because they're bigoted themselves, they see bigotry in leaders as "telling it like it is".

billwashere

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Brain disease? At the very least a broken Bullshit detector.

In all seriousness I contribute it to a lack of critical thinking skills. Which I guess could be argued is a “broken bullshit detector” so maybe I wasn’t joking after all.

Starkstruck

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Because they too are slimy balls of human waste. They don't want things to get better, they just want the "other side" to hurt more.

TWeaK

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Even if he did have a right to take secret documents from the White House, he has a clear duty to protect their secrecy. This is an admission of guilt.

The President is not god, he has a duty to serve the people and the nation.

EdibleFriend

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This guy said things well. Ill say them my way.

WE SHOULD PUNCH HIM IN THE COCK

TWeaK

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Mission failed, target too small.

winky88

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Not even Skywalker could hit that.

ZoopZeZoop

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With a cock that small, a punch to the groin is less targeted and more area of effect.

Rakonat

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Hard to find a target that small

thefartographer

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Why do they call you Cock Knocker?

roguetrick

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clear duty to protect their secrecy

Ethical duty, not legal duty in that hypothetical. I don't believe he had that right, though.

originalucifer

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i was under the impression he had to sign paperwork stating he was responsible for the documents specifically, and legally. you dont just get to grab secret crap without process.

JeffKerman1999

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He thinks he can. He said that stuff wasn't secret because he thinks it's not secret

MotoAsh

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Not only is there legal process, but he swore an oath to the US. What part of holding secrets insecurely helps the US?! Your brain is iliterally mush.

roguetrick

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Your brain is iliterally mush.

Yeah, great reading comprehension on your part friend. Now feel free to explain to me the interplay between the oath of office, administrative law, and the lack of codified law on the subject.

MotoAsh

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Your brain is mush. You are literally too stupid to understand, "don't betray the US by giving away secrets."

You are truly beyond pathetic.

roguetrick

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I see that you still have no idea what the hell I was talking about, but you still consider yourself superior.

prole

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Why does Hillary Clinton deserve to be locked up for her handling of emails, and yet what Trump has admitted to doing here doesn't go beyond "ethical dilemma" (and even that seems like a stretch for you)?

roguetrick

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in that hypothetical

As in, the poster making an argument that he had the right to handle documents however he wanted

I don't believe he had that right

As in, I don't think he was able to do that.

Are you people fucking this dense? I am not a trump supporter.

prole

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Did... you reply to the wrong comment?

roguetrick

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I think you may have, since as you can see by the quotes my comment has about zero relevance to Hillary and is in response to a hypothetical and not my feelings on the case as a whole.

originalucifer

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the guy literally signed a piece of paper that said what would happen if he did not return those specific documents, whether he declared them secret or not.

its not about th 'secret' part of it.

its that he signed a legal document regarding responsibility, and orangina over there still thinks, like you do it appears, it has anything to do with anything be marked 'secret'

'top secret' is irrelevant with regards to this document case.

IphtashuFitz

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When he was within his term of office then as POTUS he could reveal classified information to anybody if he felt it was appropriate. Previous presidents have done precisely this, disclosing classified information during state of the union addresses, etc. The important thing to keep in mind here is that the material actually remains classified. Just because the POTUS mentioned something classified it doesn’t mean everybody in the White House, military, CIA, etc. are now free to talk about it as well.

At the same time he could declassify specific material, typically via an executive order. The key is that this is a formal process with a paper trail that lets all the appropriate governmental agencies, departments, etc know precisely what is being declassified. He can’t just verbally say something like “this box of papers is now declassified”. At the very least there would need to be a printed list of exactly what is in the box.

The minute Trump left office he lost the ability to perform both these things. At that point he’s basically considered a civilian with a security clearance. He can have access to appropriate classified material, but he’s not at liberty to disclose any of it.

Madison420

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Yes and no, there is a clarification the president cannot disclose without approval as well.

Some secrets, such as information related to nuclear weapons, are handled separately under a specific statutory scheme that Congress has adopted under the Atomic Energy Act. Those secrets cannot be automatically declassified by the president alone and require, by law, extensive consultation with executive branch agencies.

https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2022/10/fact-check-presidential-authority/

Rakonat

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Remind me again how Hilary's emails were a crime but the literal theft of top secret documents is just an ethical dilemma?

elvith

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Maybe, just maybe this depends on which political party / person is doing the thing?

roguetrick

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I was talking about this guy's actual legal arguments about hypothetical administrative powers of the presidency. I do not give a shit about Hillary's emails and I did feel that what trump did was illegal.

Madison420

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You have to, they can't start a criminal investigation if they didn't think it was a crime. Both crimes are just as equally "administrative".

Similarly all of our foundational documents are living documents so a penalty just needs to be issued and precedent would be set. No one legitimately expected such a fucking masturbatory love of a document the writers of specifically said to change ... Often and as the need presents.

roguetrick

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No, I'm talking about law. Administrative law is set by the administrative branch of the government as delegated by congress. It's not codified, but is the policy and procedures of those administrative bodies, which has the force of law. Breaching those policies and procedures, which is what Trump did, is in violation of administrative law.

A legal duty is a more nebulous concept that is generally based on legal precedent. Usually has to do with something related to torts. You can't just take someone to court for an novel legal duty and expect that to magically stick criminally. It needs to be codified by congress or created in administrative law first.

Madison420

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If it's a law they have a legal duty, your hedging doesn't particularly make sense.

legal

1 of 2

adjective

le·gal ˈlē-gəl

Synonyms of legal

: of or relating to law

She has many legal problems.

: deriving authority from or founded on law : DE JURE

a legal government

: having a formal status derived from law often without a basis in actual fact : TITULAR

a corporation is a legal but not a real person

: established by law

especially : STATUTORY

the legal test of mental capacity—K. C. Masteller

: conforming to or permitted by law or established rules

The referee said it was a legal play.

Fishing in this lake is legal.

: recognized or made effective by a court of law as distinguished from a court of equity

: of, relating to, or having the characteristics of the profession of law or of one of its members

a bottle … that some legal friend had sent him—J. G. Cozzens

: created by the constructions of the law

A legal fiction is something assumed in law to be a fact regardless of the truth of that assumption.

legal

2 of 2

noun

: one that conforms to rules or the law

roguetrick

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I'm not getting into semantics, I'm talking about the original post I replied to, namely

he has a clear duty to protect their secrecy

Which is talking about a duty in derived sense, not a codified duty.

AbidanYre

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There is no "administrative branch" in the US government.

roguetrick

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That I'll concede. Can you guess what I meant though.

originalucifer

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you should stop using 'top secret', because its almost irrelevant and bad actors are grabbing onto it like it has substance.

hes being prosecuted for document mishandling, regardless of 'top secret' status. their secret status is irrelevant (technically, not morally).

Madison420

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There are lists higher punishments for the level of security. There are a few excuses for this shit that somewhat make some sense, yours just now is not one of them.

prole

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Care to answer the other gentleman (or gentlewoman/gentleperson)'s question?

I'll even post it here again to remind you in case you forgot:

how Hilary’s emails were a crime but the literal theft of top secret documents is just an ethical dilemma?

Or are you still waiting for your email with the updated talking points?

roguetrick

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Why the fuck do you think I give a shit about Hilary's emails? You seem to have confused me, an anti-fascist socialist, for a Trump supporter.

Madison420

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Legal duty, you swear an oath to enter office in these United States hoss.

roguetrick

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Penalty for breaching that oath is impeachment. That's not a codified measure, and why a whole lot of the arguments are based on administrative law, norms, and exactly how the president makes new administrative law. If it was codified, it'd be a different story.

TheSanSabaSongbird

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No it's not. What do you imagine the entire Florida case to be about if not the illegal handling of classified documents? This is a matter of public record and can be confirmed on a huge variety of news sources.

roguetrick

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I think it's about breaching administrative policies and procedures in the handling of classified materials with penalties based on the codified law delegating those procedures to the executive. What I don't believe it its based on concepts of legal duty derived from things like the oath of office.

Madison420

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You cannot take them oath again if you violate it. He can run but he cannot take office nor enter his name onto official election rolls.

Rhoeri

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Sooooooooo….. why is he not in prison?

perviouslyiner

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judge be simping

eran_morad

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Jfc. Lock him the fuck up.

Daft_ish

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You know, the fun part of this all is, in a way, all the presidency is is its norms and traditions. Trump flaunted all of them. He didn't understand they were in place to protect him. It should come as no surprise when he isn't treated like a former president because he never acted like a president in the first place.

UnspecificGravity

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Right? He wants all the unofficial but traditional perks and benefits of being a president without being bound by all the traditional obligations and expectations of the office.

It's like he thinks being rich gives him an exception to all this shit, but he's to stupid to realize that MOST American Presidents are rich, many of them more than he'll ever be.

That's Trump's whole life. He thinks being rich cures him of rules and obligations, but then he wants into "high society" because of the access and authority that it provides. But that price of admission to that circle isn't JUST about being rich, it's about following the very rules that Trump doesn't feel bound by.

It's why the only thing he can think to do with the office of the president is trying to find cool stuff to show people to make people fonally like him.

This is America, even rich people can be trash.

TheJims

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Only people who paid Trump for membership to his shitty golf hotel got access to Americas and their Allies Top Secret documents.

What a traitorous un American piece of shit this asshole is.

OldWoodFrame

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Which by the way the US has caught spies trying to get in to this exact property, plus the Australian billionaire who wasn't a spy but repeated state secrets from Trump to tons of people.

cupcakezealot

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the prosecutors:

nutsack

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oh good a meme

Additional_Prune

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Toss his ass in jail while he awaits trial, just like what happens to regular schmucks who leak classified information.

Case

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I don't think linking classified documents, at the level a president had, falls into regular schmucks.

Throw him into a military prison. While he won't suffer as much as he would under the general population, it certainly wouldn't be a "witch hunt" compared to when inmate 0792348 shanks him because he can't fathom a social structure where he isn't "superior."

Then, when the trial completes, with a guilty verdict, throw him in with gen pop. Preferably in a predominately black cell block in NY. A lot of bad blood there for a vocally racist piece of shit who directly acted against the black community over decades.

FlyingSquid

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Boy am I glad we have Aileen Cannon as the judge presiding over this case, so you know she'll be fair and impartial about this sort of thing.

CharlesDarwin

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I always try to picture the right wing reaction if Obama had done even a fraction of what baby hands has done.