NYT: "The Tunnels of Gaza. How the subterranean maze below the Gaza Strip works."
The article has more illustrations.
The article has more illustrations.
History doesn't repeat but it does tunnel.
I can hear convos from the future in my head...
MSNBC anchor: "Some people are appalled by the loss of life after the Israeli airstrike on the underground tunnel complex that resulted in approximately 700 civilians dying in or near the hospital. Can you show us what happened on the board?"
Mark "Mac" McStronger, frm. Sub-Commander at MidEast Command: "Sure." Oops. Fuck. Too conversational. "We always regret the loss of civilian life but as you can see here - the estimated location of the highly fortified bunker was at least 100 feet underground. That being the case..."
Mark "Mac" McStronger had never been on tv before but due to his acumen and wisdom and by that I mean his strong jawline, relative youth, towering height, and handsomeness - he quickly becomes a network favorite natsec go-to guy. There is much unhappiness among the other natsec guys who have none of those qualities. And by that - I mean the important ones. They don't even have full heads of hair.
The best part about this is it insinuates the bombings of the surface are basically pointless aside from terror.
Not just pointless. Actively bad.
If you wanted to block up those vents you need access to them. If you've buried them beneath tonnes of rubble you're never going to access them and they're going to function just fine 90% of the time.
Good luck finding them though. I'm also inclined to believe that it isn't an interconnected system of tunnels but instead several different groups of tunnels.
yep just a totally normal looking city up top, no need to interrogate why there's a literally underground resistance movement beneath this city
I remember this graphic and thought it was so fuckin cool. I used to daydream about badass mountain fortresses
Joining Hamas since they're the only ones prepared to deal with climate catastrophe: 
I'm in a Hamas tunnel right now it's warm as hell we got stoves and like fifty blankets you fuckin loser.
It's interesting to me that "fighting ISIS" provides validation for so many political projects. It's consistent across the right and the left. I'm not judging I think it just reflects that I know so little about ISIS.
saddam_bunker.jpg
no wait, taliban_batcave.jpg
no no wait wait, long_term_nuclear_warning_message.png
Experts warn that hamas fighters have superior darkvision and can see in total darkness up to 60 feet
Israel is hesitant to enter the subterranean Hamas Fortress for fear that they may encounter something Fun
Breaking news:
Hamas reportedly digging all but thin wall against a lava lake in order to create a "fuck the world device".
Witnesses have reported hearing rallying cries of "we're pulling a Boatmurdered, lads."
Joe Biden's ass
│Entrance hidden by
│Bricks and rubble
▂▃▂▅▇▅▅▇▄▃
┳ ║ ║▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
│ ╚╗ ╔╝
│ ║ ║ │Saddam
6ft ╚╗ ╔╝ │Hussein
│====o ╚════│════════╗
│ │║@ ▇▅▆▇▆▅▅█ ║
┷ │╚│═══════════╝
Air vent │ │Fan
if the 65 feet thing is accurate, thats fucking impressive considering the lack of construction equipment and concrete
Palestinians have spiral power like in Gurren Lagann, they used their indomitable revolutionary spirit to be really good at digging tunnels
So the thing I don't get with this "secret invisible tunnel network" bullshit is that if Hamas has built a series of tunnels so deep underground they are unaffected by bombs and missiles striking the buildings above, why the fuck does Israel keep bombing all their buildings?
Their bombing/fighting above ground along with kinda-sorta okay we bombed some hospitals is an effective terror/revenge campaign but in all seriousness - I don't know how Israel intends to fight Hamas in practice. If they actually go into the tunnels - they will have what the military itself considers to be unacceptable causalities. And Israeli public will start rending their garments and gnashing their teeth at the loss of real lives that is to say Israeli Jew lives.
---
Ninja edit
I googled to try to learn what the IDF's plans might actually be. It was very aggravating.
I watched ~90 of a video and it seemed like it was crappy so that was that.
I had look at this page - Palestinian tunnel warfare in the Gaza Strip. It seemed pointless but just before I closed the tab I saw It had a single IDF PR sentence. "In October 2023, the Israeli Defense Forces were reported to be considering the use of sponge bombs as a non-lethal means of sealing tunnels during their incursion into the Gaza Strip." Of course - it's a big lie that Israel would even consider "non-lethal means". They want to kill as many people as possible. And they want them to suffer as much as possible.
A sponge bomb is a specialized device designed to seal the end of a tunnel. Small enough that it can be set by a single person, it is a non-explosive, chemical bomb that releases a burst of expanding foam that quickly hardens.
I changed my search to something simple and I found this...
Israel Must Destroy Hamas's Tunnels | Foreign Affairs
Only a “hard kill,” meaning the collapse of the walls and roofs of the subterranean structures, will sufficiently degrade Hamas’s capabilities over the long term. Bulldozers can be used to expose tunnels during a ground operation. Drones, robots, or dogs can help clear tunnels.
[...]
A ground operation will not bring about the destruction of Hamas’s underground military apparatus. This is a job that needs to be done mainly from the air, using thermobaric weapons, bunker buster bombs, and precision-guided munitions, and from the surface using liquid emulsion (a combination of two harmless liquids that turn into a powerful explosive when mixed) and other and newer tools developed by the Israeli military. This is how most states have eliminated subterranean threats in the past, and this is what Israel should do, as well.
I read this Economist article: Israel hopes technology will help it fight in Hamas's tunnels. The first 2/3rd reads like American and Israel MIC about the wonders of modern military hitech tools. The last 1/3rd doesn't do much in explaining how the IDF will defeat Hamas. But there's more on the wonders of modern military tech. Finally it says what we already know "Both sides are in for a brutal fight."
Once a tunnel has been discovered, the next step is to disable or destroy it. With relatively shallow tunnels that can be done from the air, using “bunker-buster” bombs that penetrate the ground before detonating. But Hamas’s tactic of digging tunnels beneath civilian infrastructure means that such strikes can kill many civilian bystanders. The IDF, for instance, claims that some of Hamas’s leaders are holed up in a tunnel network beneath the al-Shifa hospital, Gaza’s biggest.
Egypt, which controls Gaza’s southern border, has in the past flooded smuggling tunnels used by Hamas with sewage. Israel has poured concrete into tunnels during earlier conflicts. But hauling in enough is probably impractical in the present war, reckons one American military official.
An Israeli security official says the idf will be making use of “sponge bombs”. These contain chemicals that, when mixed, expand into a dense, hard foam, blocking off the tunnel and buying time for a proper demolition with explosives later on. Sponge bombs are also used in a tactic known as “purple hair”. A smoke grenade is thrown into a tunnel before a sponge bomb seals the entrance. If the trapped smoke wafts out of a nearby building, that suggests it conceals another entrance.
Sometimes, though, soldiers will need to enter the tunnels. Drilling rigs can make new entrances to avoid booby-traps set at existing ones. Elbit Systems, an Israeli firm, has developed an armed quadcopter that uses computer vision to fly in enclosed spaces. Other drones can roll through tunnels and climb stairs.
Both sides are in for a brutal fight. Hamas will be hoping that its tunnels will help it compensate for the IDF’s overwhelming advantage in firepower. The Israelis, meanwhile, will hope their technology can transform those same tunnels from a refuge into a trap.
Thanks for the well researched information there, though I was more talking about how Israel will insist that bombing gaza to rubble is necessary to "stop Hamas" and then in the next breath mention how their bombs are ineffective against Hamas because of the tunnels. More pointing out their lack of consistency in their bullshit, rather than actual, tangible reasons why they don't attack the tunnels directly. But now I get to learn a little more about the tunnel warfare in the region, which is something I don't really know much about, so I appreciate it!
I forgot to mention that Foreign Affairs and The Economist are pretending Israel will follow the rules of war. Of course they won't. I really wanted to know what war crimes method Israel might use to kill as many people in the tunnels as possible as fast as possible. If there's an effective way Israel can use chemical weapons or similar - they will simply commit war crimes and - bad pun intended - deal with the fallout later. Israel wants to keep their casualty absolutely numbers low as possible and they want to "accomplish their mission" whatever that actually is as fast as possible. My hunch is that they have about a few months max if Biden decides he doesn't want to destroy his 2024 for the benefit of Israel and their war. Also - Biden definitely doesn't want Israel to kill so many people - Hezbollah enters the war because I think his 2024 hopes die that very day.
I don't know what the situation is in the middle east well at all. But Hezbolah and syria and jordan? could all just be waiting for israel to commit their ground forces to gaza. This situation would be so much more likely to lead to WW3 than Ukraine ever was.
You might find this video enlightening as well: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mMaQn6eBroY In it, a (former?) US Matine talks in detail about the Kurdish tunnels he saw and US tunnels he used in during his deployment, and how difficult they are to infiltrate and destroy, as well as how comfortable some of them are.
It does not sound at all trivial to beat tunnels. They are powerful fortifications.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
A comment at NYT.
It seems to me, as a retired geophysicist, that they could use seismic sounding techniques to find the tunnels. Secondly, the fact that it is murderously hard to find the tunnels, and root out the terrorists hiding in them/using them, is no excuse to instead bomb apartments, refugee camps, and hospitals above them. There is just no excuse for that, that allows you to retain any moral authority. Instead, you become, as bad as they are.
I would use seismic wave detection techniques, and gas or otherwise poison them in the tunnels. And overwhelm them with wave after wave of onslaught from all entrance directions that doesn’t kill the people above. Despite the troop losses.
The fact that the Israeli state believes that they have the sole right to the land of Israel based on their history and faith does not mean that the people who had been living on that land prior to the Israelis pushing them out in the late 40s have any less valid claim. Pushing people off the land they have been living on for years is also known as forced relocation, which is a war crime.
65 year old woman, former republicans now long term democrat, not religious, and not at all comfortable with my tax dollars supporting the murder of people in Gaza.
And, obviously, Hamas are terrorists and what they did on 10/7 was horrific - as is the violence and land grabbing by settlers in the West Bank, and what the Israelis did to the Palestinians in the late 40s.
Neither side has clean hands here - nor do we.
She's that close to simpathize with palestinian resistance, she knows the suffering. How can she not understand the struggle for liberation?
I think you have to to say that in America otherwise your neighbours talk to the FBStasi and get you watchlistes
they could use seismic sounding techniques to find the tunnels
yes, they could do that, but it would take ages to do seismic surveys all over Gaza (it's a big fucking place!) even in the best of conditions and those surveyors could be captured/killed by Hamas in that time (justifiably, I think, in this situation). Also, finding the exact location of voids is hard even if you know where they are in advance, and when they're like within 10 feet of the surface. There's a reason why tunnels continue to be a problem for cross-border smuggling, as well as the odd prison escape, and those tunnels aren't usually 60 feet underground.
And the little fireball chains from Mario that spin around the stone blocks and you have to wait for them to spin past before you jump to the next block
We all know that the NYt is a rag on the level of dDailymail and pure propaganda. But how fucking stupid are liberals that they slobber up this steaming pile of do shit the NYT regularly serves up
So Hamas gonna invade Israel like those lizard people in that one Dr Who episode, yeah?
Some settler gonna walk over a patch of ground and woosh, dragged into the underground by Hamas.
