Its rubbish and we should just stay in summertime. Yet another daylight hour stolen in the evening
What the hell, why not stay in standard time? I don't like having to get out of bed while it's still dark outside. It's already bad with everything being dark outside at 8am in winter, doesn't need to be made even worse.
In the morning and while I am at work I don’t really care for the conditions outside. By 8 its daylight here no matter the summer or wintertime. But what I care for is going outside in the evening, doing sports in the forest, go cycling and enjoy nature. Its hard doing that when it is dark when I finish working. Other geographic regions might prefer winter time, I personally prefer sommertime
In the morning and while I am at work I don’t really care for the conditions outside.
Wow really? Because when I was younger I hated waking up in winter when it was still dark outside and having to go to school. I'm assume my classmates did too. If school time doesn't change and the clock is 1 hour forward in winter, then it would be like standing up EVEN earlier.
So I guess as a person you also don't mind much doing night shifts, is that right?
Hmmm… I never worked nights. When I was younger I would stay up all night but this has since changed and I am much more an early riser. I just lived in Norway for 7 years when the sun would rise at 11 and set at 3pm in the winter. So when it comes down to it, if I can choose when to have an extra hour of daylight, its when I can use it.
When we would permanently go to summer time, I will do everything one hour later than now.
So do you mean instead of going to school/work at eg. 9:00 UTC you would go to work at 10:00 UTC+1? In other words, nothing would change except that in summer everything starts an hour later than it does now? That only works if your school system and company/customers allow this freedom. Oftentimes they don't.
If you mean something else, could you clarify? I'm curious regarding this topic.
Sorry for the late reply, I just read yours, this app is still a bit of a mystery to me. My work allows for flexible working hours, so there's no problem there. But in the wake of a decision to stay with Summer Time year round I would suppose that the starting times of businesses and schools would be up for debate. Especially for schools, as these already presently do not lign up with the sleep cycles of students, they only match those of the teachers. It's funny how introduction of Summer Time has convinced through being confusing. When the plan would have been to ask everyone to come in one hour earlier during summer, a lot of people would have protested. By setting the clock one hour later it has gotten authority and nobody was sure which way the hour difference was supposed to go. Later or earlier? People are still not sure after all these years.
I understand your point, but can you guarantee that schools and work for all the other people will also start one hour later? If just a single person does everything one hour later that's not gonna solve the issue and if everybody does it then you might as well stick to standard time.
Just to be pedantic, as I found it really interesting when I realised, it's actually 5 months winter time and 7 months summer.
In the US states that still do this nonsense, it's 8 months on daylight saving time (summer time), and just four months on so-called "standard time." We should just stay on summer time all year at this point.
We were so close to being rid of it last year. The Senate unanimously Approved the "The Sunshine Protection Act" which would of gotten rid of the fall back period we experience in November. But Congress never brought it to a vote so it never became law.
Interestingly, British Summer Time is used for 7 months of the year and GMT is used for 5 months. We just changed clocks this morning.
I don't really care which we stick with, but we should pick one, summer time or winter time, and then stick with it. Or split the difference, I don't care. Let's all set the clocks a half-hour off and stay there forever. But the additional complication of changing all clocks and fucking with everyone's rhythms is frankly just cruel.
If YOU want more light in the "morning," YOU wake up at nine rather than eight. If YOU want more light in the evening, YOU go to bed at 9 rather than 10. This doesn't have to be an "all of us" thing.
Most people doesn't have a choice when to wake up, as they need to get to work.
Even though I hate that it gets dark sooner, I think we should stay in winter time because AFAIK morning light is important for our health.
If you really care that much about it, you're free to pick one rhythm and stick with it all year through. A work mate of mine did exactly this a few years ago. This doesn’t have to be an “all of us” thing.
I fucking hate the changing of the clock for the season. I wish it was banned across the planet. It's stupid and statistically shows it's bad for traffic, deadly to older people, especially men, and generally bad for businesses.
I think you mean Standard Time?
Winter time is when the clock is set back one additional hour, ie -2h when compared to Summer Time (a.k.a. Daylight Saving Time).
We call standard time winter time here. I just complained about it to my wife yesterday, that we are NOT switching to winter time. We are switching back to standard time.
But everybody calls it winter time.
It's not weird considering that historically it has been the standard time and only later the daylight saving time idea (aka summer time) was introduced. Plus on the equator you don't really need them as such and on the southern hemisphere they'd be the opposite.
Yes please. Permanent DST would be nice. I hate it being pitch black at 4pm. Not to mention adjusting sleeping patterns.
Wait, is it not next week?
I do agree that we should end it, and I think most people agree. My part of the world (BC, Canada) is ready to drop it and it is waiting for the US states in our time zone to push it through their gridlocked politics. There's growing pressure to just give up on the US and just do it ourselves. Last I heard, there was bipartisan support in the US to also drop it, but there's always some other mess to clean up or some other partisan thing that gets stuffed into the bill.
As for winter time vs. summer time, I really do not care. Both options will hurt some people and help others.
Pick either one and stick with it
Ah makes sense, even weirder that we do it on different days.
What's the public sentiment like in the EU, are people close to dropping it?
It's being discussed but there's no agreement yet. The main debate is over whether to choose the same one (summer vs winter) for the whole EU. If we do, countries at the geographic extremes like Spain vs Finland will get shafted. If we don't and allow each country to pick one (or a completely new timezone even) we could end up with weird fragmented time zones where neighboring countries are all over the place.
We do agree for the most part that it needs to be dropped.
Obviously I can't talk for everyone, but I have seen some shows and such on tv or on the internet in favour of dropping it. It would make sense to me as well, but it's not actively discussed politically afaik. I'm in the netherlands fyi.
The EU voted to drop it. It just hasn't actually happened yet. I think the last change was supposed to be in 2020 but a global pandemic got in the way.
This is my favourite part of the whole ridiculous parade. For a good two weeks or so all my meetings with US colleagues are just chaos.
I would love for CEST to end. It should just stick to whichever timezone is giving you noon when the sun is at it's highest point.
Doesn't work that great in really wide timezones. Where do you measure noon from? The east? The middle?
On average I suppose, and of course there's more than just the sun's position to think of. You also want to be in sync with neighboring countries to make sure people don't have to change their clock every time they cross a border.
For where I live, summertime puts the sun at it's highest point at around 13:20 while wintertime is 12:20. My country (Netherlands) is small enough not to have any significant difference between east and west.
But when you look over the wider timezone:
| Location | Wintertime | Summertime |
|---|---|---|
| Fisterra, Spain (most western) | 13:20 | 14:20 |
| Paris | 12:34 | 13:34 |
| Rome | 11:53 | 12:53 |
| Berlin | 11:50 | 12:50 |
| Warsaw | 11:23 | 12:23 |
| Nowosady, Poland (most eastern) | 11:09 | 12:09 |
| Vadsø, Norway (even more eastern) | 10:44 | 11:44 |
I took those most eastern and western as an estimate, but the difference would be negligible with other nearby towns. Time of highest point is for today.
It's a big timezone when you look at the differences. During summer time the most extreme differences from sun's highest point would be between +00:09 - +02:20 hours. For wintertime it would be -00:51 - +1:20 hours, with the average much closer to noon. So yes, for my timezone, I would say wintertime is the best choice if you want noon to match the sun's highest point.
Oh no... see what you did, you brought out the nerd in me :)
edit
So I just noticed Norway has that little strip even further to the east. To make it completely fair, if you take Vadsø in account, the difference would be -00:16 - +02:20 to -01:16 - +01:20 hours. With winter time noon, on average, most closely in sync with the highest point of the sun.
I prefer standard time.
If anything, it should be inverse. I want more sunlight during winter years.
We all should just move to Arizona where they don't follow DST.
I think you're confused.
"Standard time" is the "fall back" during winter. At the center of the time zone, the sun is at its highest point at noon. Depending on latitude, we have as little as 8 to 10 hours of daylight, with 4 to 5 hours before noon and 4 to 5 hours after noon. So sunrise is between 7 and 8 AM at the center of the time zone, and sunset is between 4 and 5 PM.
"Daylight Savings Time" is the "spring forward" during summer. The sun is at its highest point at 1PM in the center of the timezone. We have 14 to 16 hours of daylight. That's 7 to 8 hours before and after 1PM, (6 to 7 hours before noon) or a sunrise between 5 and 6 AM, and a sunset between 8 and 9 PM. (8 to 9 hours after noon.)
If we maintained DST through the winter, sunrise would be as late as 8 to 9 AM on the shortest day of the year, (December 21st) and sunset would be between 5 and 6 PM.
I want the clock to move forward an hour in the winter so that the sun sets later during the evening, since that's the time I'm most productive, lol. I'm perfectly fine with 8-9 AM sunrises.
I'm discussing all this in fun. Nothing to be taken seriously here.
Ok. Fully agreed.
That's "daylight savings time", not "standard time".
Standard time = bad. DST leaves you with that extra hour of daylight in the evening.
There's only one way to get more sunlight during winter days: Move closer to the equator or, better yet, to the opposite hemisphere.
Maybe we should implement Morning Daylight Saving Time and Afternoon Daylight Saving Time, where we all change our clocks at 1 pm every day back to 12 noon, and then again at midnight we set them to 1 am.
Hmm. We could do even better: shift by 2 or 3 hours every day, and so we'd get that much more productivity out of our employees! Smithers, go tell everybody!
That's probably the ideal situation given that you'd never have to change your clock again. Well, except when traveling east or west. And setting up meetings would be a nightmare, like "let's meet tomorrow at... eh, let me see... 4:13 for you Tom, 3:48 for you Sam, 7:24 for you Jane, oh, you have another meeting at 7:41... Ok, how about... Uhm..."
No, figuring out which of my clocks is fucked was a nice tradition, and now I also get to manually restart my poorly written python daemons.
But really, yes, we should.
I'm fine with keeping the time change every so often as long as they can program my 2-year old alarm clock to also give me an extra hour of sleep when it happens.
For whatever reason I read time as tires. And I'm like. No this is stupid the roads would be damaged.
Then I reread it 2-3 times then I got it. And I agree we need to stop changing our clocks.
I don't really care which one, but end this nonsense. Switching every 6 months is so last century
Yes, I can live with UTC, GMT, Pacific, a single global timezone. I don't care at this point - just stop making me feel out of wack twice a year!
I couldnt care less honestly. We live in the 21st century and All my clocks switch automaticly and thats all i care about
I envy you. My microwave, oven, car and others all apparently have to have a clock but aren't capable of switching automatically.
I'm not sure why, in the 21st century, we have clocks that can tell the wrong time.
Yes I don't see the point besides creating global confusion and making me Chang the hour on my alarm
Don't you see? If you cut an hour off at the start of the day, and add it on to the end of the day, you end up with a longer day!
I don't understand what's hard to understand. The timing to avoid starting your day in significant darkness all winter would means a very early sunrise and short evenings in the summer.
The logical solution is to change our schedules to partially follow the sunrise, rather than keeping everything static relative to midday.
We could all coordinate changing every timetable and appointment, or we can instead change one single thing to get the same effect.
IMO a theoretical ideal would be to fix the time of sunrise. But I'm practice that would be a huge PITA only workable through tech.
Places closer to the equator get nothing much out of it.