https://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20231020/depression-linked-to-ultra-processed-foods-artificial-sweeteners
Ultra-processed foods are energy-dense and ready-to-eat food items including things like processed breakfast meats, packaged snacks, and ice cream as well as artificially sweetened drinks.
Not to mention that if you're depressed, preparing healthy food can be a huge struggle because of the effort involved in acquiring ingredients, cooking/preparing the food, and cleanup afterwards.
Also often not mentioned is the planning required before going shopping and the amount of food wasted when cooking for one. Like if getting out of the house is already such a huge chore it becomes impossible to also add planning the groceries plus if half of it is going to be wasted anyway there isn't even any cost difference. What incentive is left except some abstract ideal to live a healthy lifestyle.
Yeah,planning is terrible. I forget to put meat out of the fridge all the time! When I remember it's almost time to cook. About the expense difference, I'm poor in a poor country in which ironically raw and fresh food is cheaper than processed food so luckily I'm forced to cook and be healthier. I lost 18 pounds since I lost my job because I stopped buying meals and processed junk food when doing groceries. If I wasn't broke I'd say it was a blessing in disguise.
Before I got student assistance I had to work while studying as well, I had to pay for the more expensive prepared food because I didn't have the time to plan a meal, cook it and clean up and all that, even if my depression + undiagnosed ADD combo would have allowed it. People don't know that being poor is expensive in ways they wouldn't think about. This is in a rich country as well, getting fresh ingredients typically is cheaper here too but people forget that the cost of preparation might not be affordable to some.
Oh man, it's so hard cooking for one. Pretty much every meal I make is a week's worth because it's just me and it's so much easier to cook multiple servings at once.
Oh yeah for sure. I also have issues with OCD, specifically around food contamination and safety. It makes it damn near impossible to eat leftovers for me for the last few years.
I waste more food than I'd like, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Hence falling back on getting prepackaged, single serving meals, which aren't often healthy at all.
That fucking sucks dude I was able to get out of the depressive rut, with like massive amounts of help, wouldn't know what I had done if I had developed OCD as well.
Yeah OCD is a bitch. Along with bipolar I and PTSD, my life is an absolute nightmare at times.
how about freezing leftovers? if you have an even remotely new freezer it should work just dandy without much quality degradation.
relatedly is frozen ingredients, especially stuff like peas that you can just stir into your meal and let that reheat them. Very easy way to add some nutrients to your diet.
The problem is that OCD is irrational. Once something has been opened, I literally can't eat it again without my brain going into an obsession about getting food poisoning or something.
My brain will be like, "I dunno, what if the power went out while you weren't home. Or while you were asleep? Who knows if the food is still good?"
I literally can't keep anything around that requires temperature control, so I mostly get what I'm going to eat that day. It's really frustrating and exhausting.
I won’t pretend to understand what you go through but I’m strongly sympathetic.
Question: from your perspective, would taking a course or two about food safety, so that a person thoroughly understands the science behind food spoiling and becoming toxic, would that help in any way with some of the thoughts/fears about eating leftovers? I fully expect you to say no, and I would definitely believe you. But I’m still curious about your perspective.
I took several in college, which made the issue much worse tbh. Now I know for sure that if x food product can spoil in a time frame that I'll not be around to verify that my refrigerator was working the whole time, then I just can't do it.
It's the same cycle as if your poor, you end up having to buy the worse deals in groceries because you have to buy cheap overall, thus keeping you poor and unhealthy. Having depression causes you to be unmotivated to cook healthy and you end up eating crap, making you feel crappy, and keeping you depressed.
Yep. I recall working all day serving tables, feeling sick, and I could only afford the blister pack of 2 generic benadryl for $3.99 at the gas station until I got some more tips. There were many little things like that that added up.
This is exactly it, I'm not depressed because I eat shitty processed food, I eat that shit because it's the only thing I have the energy to deal with.
That’s correct, and also it’s a vicious cycle because poor diets enforce depression on a biological level as well.
If it works for you and doesn't hurt you, then enjoy it. I struggle to even shower sometimes when I'm really depressed. Imagining going to the grocery store and everything else involved in making healthy meals is incredibly overwhelming.
Came here to say this..
If only they'd have thought of learning even the most basic facts about depression first, they could have saved themselves a lot of time and money.
But I suspect they were never looking to improve the lives of depressed people, but rather just to get on the latest buzzword-bandwagon that vilifies "ultra-processed foods" but never offers any viable alternative, let alone addresses the reasons why people consume, or even rely on it in the first place, and who benefits from making and selling it (because the answer is capitalism, and the capitalists funding these waste-of-resources hollow research projects wouldn't fund one that points the finger back at them).
This nonsense is just as much a distraction and a shifting of responsibility from systemic to personal as plastic bans and made up "carbon footprint" are.
As a person with Dysthymia, shit like this pisses me off to no end. I've dealt with depression most of my life and I've lived many different lifestyles, super healthy and fit, eating very healthy and the complete opposite of the spectrum, binge eating, super overweight, getting destroyed by diabetes, and the one constant has always been the depression. Articles like this, as you say, are just a distraction and putting the blame on the victim. They obviously have an agenda to attack process foods and artificial sweeteners and depression is not the reason they are attacking them.
I’ve dealt with depression most of my life and I’ve lived many different lifestyles...and the one constant has always been the depression.
yup, same.
And then this shit is not only unhelpful to us, but it also makes many people (including, sadly health and care professionals) think that if we only took as good a care of ourselves as they do (they tell themselves), we wouldn't be depressed (and, in a lot of their minds, a "drain" on them and/or society). It's all so fucked up, but none of it is accidental.
Oh man, I just had this conversation with my mom last weekend. The same "if you just stop X, then maybe you won't be so depressed". This time is was thinking about government and societal issues. I don't know how to get to understand that so much of what I "think" or "worry" about it just who I am and I can't stop, in the same way she can't just stop thinking about her children. It's just me and yeah, it is probably affecting my depression in some ways, but there's just some things I have to hurt.
That sucks, those conversations are so frustrating, and sadly I don't know how you get others to understand, there are so many layers of socialisation, indoctrination, propaganda that contribute to that kind of thinking (where unless we are a happy smiley worker cog selling our labour to produce profit for others without complaining, there's not only something wrong with us, but we're also harming the system they've been manipulated to defend), it's almost impressive how efficient the system is at keeping us down and divided.
it’s almost impressive how efficient the system is at keeping us down and divided.
It's such a sad realization. So much of our society, no matter where you live, is designed to do this. And we're constantly being manipulated. I have a degree in graphic design and I worked in advertising for a couple years out of college. It was the job I hated most, especially when it really hit me how much of it was just manipulating people in different ways. The most minor creative decision on any given project was made to catch the viewer in some way and it's depressing how prevalent this is in the world.
It really is so fucking bleak isn't it (I had a short stint in sales as my first proper job, and like you, I hated it but it opened my eyes to a lot)..
I guess the one positive in realising these things is that with it comes the realisation that the issues we face are deliberate and systemic, which hopefully leads to understanding that the solution then must also be systemic, and the more people realise that, the more chance we have at actually reaching the tipping point where enough of us band together to achieve it.
He said that because this is an observational study – one that looked at data already gathered – they cannot say highly processed food causes depression. That said, he thinks the data is strong.
“We were able to adjust for a number of what are called confounding variables in our analysis to suggest that eating more ultra-processed foods really could increase your risk of depression.”
“Sometimes what you see when you adjust for these variables is that the models or the results get weaker. And we didn’t really see that at all,” he later said.
Yeah this is dodgy. Basically he's saying "we cannot say something but we'll say it anyway,". You only need 1 confounding factor or 1 incorrect adjustment to completely break the validity of any link.
To say the link got stronger as they adjusted for different confounding factors doesn't mean anything. It's a specious argument.
I assume this is a correlation study? not a causation one?
It seems plausible the opposite is true, that depressed people are more likely to eat easy sweet foods.
That's exactly the first thing that crossed my mind. Whenever I get a depressive episode, the last thing I want to do is cook. So the least effort, quickest meal is the meal I have. And meals like that are generally processed, terrible foods.
This has and presents problems.
The good news: it is using data from the Nurses Study. That's hard data to beat because it's got a great collection method going back years and years.
Bad news: it's only covering four years. Bad news: it defines ultra processed foods as, among other things. having lots of calories. But spends a whole lot of time blaming drinks with artificial sweeteners. The one thing artificial sweeteners aren't is calorie dense.
Either way it will give us something to argue about for a few years.
The one thing artificial sweeteners aren’t is calorie dense.
Depends if HFCS counts as "artificial," I suppose.
I have personally noticed that my hunger is worse when drinking sugar-free soda.
quitting it made sticking to a calorie deficit easier.
after I had these results I googled about it and apparently it's known possible side-effect for women and overweight people
so if anything the sugar free stuff is at least not all that no-brainer choice people make it out to be
it's still a no-brainer to switch from normal soda to sugarfree: the calories in normal soda is literally just sugar which is the absolute worst form they could take, whereas in food you're likely to get at least half of the calories in the form of fat/protein/larger carbohydrates.
Plus when you eat the calories instead of drinking them it makes you feel fuller, and there's at least a chance you'll get some more fibre in your diet.
that's not as easy, sugar in itself is not "the worst".
It's no-Brainer to switch to plain carbonated water, I wouldn't say it's a no brainer to switch to sugar free, that depends on how much soda you drink and how badly the sugar-free one affects your hunger, to me it's a lot, so if I would want a can of coke I would probably better of sticking to the normal one since I don't drink it often and it won't throw off my hunger to a crazy degree.
Though to be fair you might not have the context of how much diet soda hrows my hunger off, it's so bad for me I can easily eat my 800 calorie high protein chicken-wrap 2 hours after the previous one if I drink a diet soda with it, while without the diet soda I can go for hours without feeling hungry
The tricky part with artificial sweeteners is that they only really help when you control for other caloric intake — which people generally don't in everyday life.
Replacing a 200-calorie sugary drink with a zero-calorie artificial-sweetener-filled drink has unintended consequences in practice. It affects your hunger response which can cause you to eat back those calories and then some. There have been studies showing this both in rats and in humans.
Artificial sweeteners are also far from healthy in isolation.
As with many things related to health and diet, you need to be careful and realistic when considering what the real alternative is, especially when factoring in human psychology.
Personally, I had great success when I tracked all my food and drink intake, and once I had a strict calorie "budget" I found it very easy to cut out shitty food — because at that point the cost of empty calories was smaller, less satisfying meals, which was tangible and relatively immediate. In that context, artificial sweeteners worked for me because I had the tools to control those unintended consequences.
In any case: seltzer with a teensy bit of lemon juice beats everything. :) I'm very happy with my purchase of a home carbonator.
“What we found is that consuming high amounts of ultra-processed foods could increase your risk of developing depression by up to 50%,” said Raaj Mehta, MD, MPH, one of the study’s authors and a gastroenterologist at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston.
Obligatory: Fuck Nestlé (P&G, Unilever, etc.)
You know nothing is stopping people from eating these foods in moderation. You don't have to go out and eat a family sized bag of chips by yourself in a single sitting.
Consuming large amounts of any food in a single sitting would be bad for you.
Eating disorders exist, company cantines exist, poverty exists. Not everyone has free choice in exactly how much processed stuff they eat.
Everyone has a say in what they eat.
A ten ounce bad of doritos at my local super market is $6
I can get a pound of chicken breast for $4 and a pound if fresh green beans for $2.50
I can buy a bunch of celery, baby carrots and a low calorie dip for the same price
A bag of Doritos is ready to eat. The chicken breast and green beans have to be prepared and there are many factors why that may not be feasible for someone.
Celery and a low calorie dip is not exactly a healthy balanced meal, sure it's low in calories but it's low in just about everything and not really much better than a bag of Doritos.
You can buy pre-made chicken for the price of a bag of doritos.
Stop making excuses for people that lack self control
Some people just don't.
People with ED might have to eat food that they know will cause problems in the long term because the short term consequences of the alternative are catastrophic.
A lot of companies do not offer fridges or even any place to store food, the worker has to eat what the company offers.
Poor people often do not have the time or energy to prepare their own food as they often have to work twice as hard if they ever want to rise above the poverty line. The time it takes to plan, store the ingredients (and some don't even have the material necessities needed to store food) and prepare those supposedly cheaper fresh ingredients comes at the cost of not being able to work for that time. So it is often cheaper for the poor person to buy the seemingly more expensive processed food.
Then that is on the person woth an earing disorder. Of we removed everything from this world that effected some in a negative way nothing would be left
Then that is on the person woth an earing disorder.
Sure, blame the sick for their illness.
Of we removed everything from this world that effected some in a negative way nothing would be left
what a thought-terminating sentence. We can't remove everything that affects people in a negative way so lets just stop talking about it. The worker who has to work in sickening conditions, the poor who can't freely choose if they want to live healthy, can't eradicate it so it's not worth thinking about. Anyway did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Why would I blame companies that have nothing to do with it?
Hate to break it to you but I was once poor too amd worked hard bringing home little money and I never resulted to a bag of chips.knstead of picking up real food to cook for similar prices.
Unprocessed food is far more expensive. Very few people don't have access either.
I'd you are getting fat at work, Jesus Christ, have a modicum of self restraint.
We are not talking about people getting fat because of the food their company provides thats such a deranged misreading of what we're talking about holy shit
Except we're not talking about getting fat you cretin. Guess which products use the "Artificial Sweeteners" mentioned in the very title of this post.
Family sized bags of chips are also a comfort food and very appealing when depressed.
They are cheap enough and filling enough and interesting enough that you can find yourself munching through them as you try and distract yourself from whatever.
It's quite easy to set up a vicious circle of depressed -> eat crap -> depression.
And it is very difficult to break out of it
But again that is not the companies fault that is making them. Tens if not hundreds of millions of people enjoy those foods responsibly every day.
It's the depressed person who has an issue and needs to seek mental health care
Where is that ? I can see a shrink in a few days if I call out here in jersey. There are shrinks every where now
Just because reddit banned fatpeoplehate, that doesn't mean you need to be self righteous here.
I know someone very dear to me who can get suicidal and the only way to break out is by eating extraordinarily unhealthy food. So not buying them is not an option. One of the triggers for such a suicidal episode by the way is her weight and the stigma that comes along with it. So no it is not option. Shut the fuck up.
and this is why the insistent blemishing of artificial sweeteners maddens me, it's nothing but a vehicle for feeling superior.
sugarfree soda is kinda amazing, can we maybe resist the urge to scream at new things and just appreciate that people can now drink things that make them happy without gaining a bunch of weight from it?
"What we found is that consuming high amounts of ultra-processed foods could increase your risk of developing depression by up to 50%"
and
"He said that ... they cannot say highly processed food causes depression"
Those statements sound contradictory (Or do they mean that it 'could' be 50% or 0%? But if so, why say anything at all)
He can’t say it definitely because, even though the observational results are convincing, you’d want to produce biological/neurological evidence to be able to make the claim with certainty.
Sure. Then imho if he can't say it definitively, he should not make the first claim (slipping in weasel words like 'could' and 'up to' serve as a lazy catch-all disclaimer in that case.)
Can’t wait for this study to be buried and it’s republished with “corrected” findings
Remember sugar how they later said it was fat?