Trying to be happy via drugs drives home just how non-arbitrary it is.
Drugs give you variation around a set point. Uppers crash you down. Downers make you tense when they wear off. Only real world work can move that set point around which drugs just make you fluctuate.
Psychedelics can absolutely kick that set-point into another universe if you let them. I can't begin to explain how it works or how it feels, but I have personally have had some very significant life changes since I started using them on a regular basis.
Sure, you can use psychedelics for fun, but in a proper environment they can be a strong driver for extremely healthy mental change.
Real work is an absolute requirement. No argument there. However, a person may need a complete mental rewiring to get to the point where they are willing to move forward. Like myself.
And they absolutely should be. They are amazingly powerful substances that deserve all the study we can afford to give them.
What I find absolutely fascinating is that their abuse potential is extremely low. After a 50ug dose of psilocybin, the last thing I want to do the next day is do it again. It's not because it was a bad experience, but it's just how it works. (Also, lightning fast tolerance. Once you saturate your 5HT2A receptors, it takes a while to recover.)
I hate myself, this world, and most people so much that I want to do psychedelics just to kill that side of me and, hopefully, start feeling like I have some sort of power again. I am about to look into buying the spores and growing my own, but I don't want a shit ton of extra shrooms. I just want to do one heavy dose, let my inner id die, and live my life again.
I totally get that. Really.
I can't tell you how to trip or what your dosages are going to be. Every person is different and your mind may not be cut out for what you will experience. Taking one mega dose without experience or without a friend around is not recommended unless you already have a firm grip on reality and are an extremely self aware person.
If you need advice, DM me and I can tell you how to get started growing or ask around in /c/shrooms (Edit: added a link to the instance and community in a separate comment)and you will get some good advice. There are easy ways to grow these days without needing equipment for sterilization. This instance is shrooms friendly, so I hang out here. A shoebox size grow will get you a few trips, so don't worry about having too many.
One dose may work for you or it may not. If you know someone that you can trust fully and they have a super chill vibe, it's good practice to trip with a partner. Your own mind can be a scary place if left to its own devices and a partner is a good source of reality checks if you get "lost".
Ego death (or ego dissolution) is a very real thing that you can experience. Your existence seems to stop being about just you and you can develop an almost spiritual connection with everything around you. It's life changing, but a person should be aware of what is real and what is actually part of the trip. In some cases, reality does mix with what you perceive as "real" and it can be exceedingly complex to filter out what is going on.
Above all else, you need to be in a healthy environment. Environmental context can absolutely determine how your trip is going to be. Psychedelics can amplify what are normally passive feelings and you want to set the tone as best as you can.
I have tried many different dosage levels in many different environments. I have had good experiences and also negative ones. In my case, shrooms helped me perceive the world from a brand new point of view and everything felt new again. I can almost feel how my brain is being rewired and it is very interesting.
I love you and your explanation. My wife has done them a couple of times. I've been listening to, "How to change your mind" audiobook, and it makes me really want to experience it. I'm an empath so I fully expect to experience the ego death and I welcome the experience no matter how it goes. I have saved your message and will definitely look into that lemmy group and see about setting up my own temp grow environment.
I appreciate you!
Do it man! I hope you find a way to engage where you feel like you’re pedaling life not just screaming downhill with no brakes.
Correction: One of the more active shroom communities is here: https://sh.itjust.works/c/shrooms
The one on lemmy.ca is still budding and lemmy.world is not shroom friendly.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !shrooms@sh.itjust.works
Uhh yeah don't do that. It's not like that at all. Maybe try coke, but that's not gonna last long.
Amphetamines like that will do more harm than good and it's not really a stable high as far as drugs go. Plus, testing coke is a pain as you don't really know what it is cut with.
Yeah, of course. Amphetamines can be used medicinally, but it's better they be amphetamine salts and are used on a regular schedule. I have been taking Adderall for years, and after so long, it's a chore to constantly use them. Also, the long term side effects absolutely suck ass. They work, but I would rather not take them any more.
Yeah I'm not really recommending it. I'm just trying to say that guy has the wrong idea and is gonna be pretty shocked when he realizes what ride he's getting on.
Yeah but it doesn’t happen automatically on psychedelics. You’ve still got to do the work, inside the trip.
Hence, my the first two sentences of that last paragraph. Real results take real work, no argument there. However, there is always a way to hopefully work smarter, not harder.
You've been reading too much self help nonsense and not experiencing enough drugs to make any assertions about how drugs work. You're so far wrong and oversimplified that I can't even bother reaching so far down to give you a platform of understanding.
instead of telling someone they're wrong, tell them why they're wrong. this whole "x is bad for no reason" rhetoric is why gross drug stigmas exist in the first place so please be better.
Feel free to come up with an accurate description of the complexities of drug interactions to a "haha uppers and downers" person yourself. It's gonna be like explaining color to a dog.
Yep, pretty much any mind altering substance can teach you that. It is one thing to philosophise about it, but another thing entirely to experience it first hand. Can also be experienced through meditation (especially Buddhist jhana meditation), although it's a skill that takes time to learn.
I did that 10 days vipassana retreat where we meditated for more than 16 hours a day for 10 days. Eventually I got there, but it was very underwhelming, way to much work for too little blis/reward or what you want to call it. Never tried mind altering substances (other than alcohol and marijuana) because I'm too afraid to get hoked and to destroy my life.
Psychedelics won't hook you. You will be very overwhelmed the first time and you will think about the experience and if it was pleasurable, you will probably be open to doing it again but it's not an addictive experience unless you want it to be. And even then it will take you a long time to develop an addiction. One hit of LSD or some mushroom chocolates with people you can trust and enjoy being around would should be something everyone tries once. The art of the 60s will definitely have a whole new meaning.
Best time I ever had, doing MDMA and listening to "Surrealistic Pillow" by Jefferson Airplane. I didn't even care that everyone around me was hooking up, I was in it for the jams!
I used to get mushroom tootsie rolls from a friend of mine. They're kinda fun. I've only taken them like 3 or 4 times though, and it's been a couple years since.
Like you said it's not really addictive unless you want it to be. Tbh I think the reason I don't find it addictive at all is that one time I just had a negative trip. Like it wasn't really bad, but it just didn't feel right.
I still don't get what this post is saying, and I'm totally sober right now.
"How arbitrary the connection between how you feel and how well things are going," wtf?
It refers to the fact that feelings are not a reflection of the outside reality, but a reflection of one's perception of it. According to OP, this is proven by how feelings completely change by simply changing the way the brain perceives reality, via a psycotropic compound, while actual reality remains unchanged.
This is a well known scientific and philosophical fact, that OP has only come to know recently thanks to personal experience with psycotropic drugs
Such epiphany resulted in the shower thought we are commenting.
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It doesn't really matter what's happening, with regards to how you're feeling. You can be going through shit and having a good time, or king of the world and just miserable.
IMO this is such an important thing about life. You can't control most of what happens to you, but what you can control is your attitude & your reaction. You often don't need to have an opinion, a preference, or a response to a situation/event.
The worst thing for me is to feel like I'm insane because of my feeling about a thing not aligning with how it should with regards to my understanding of things. That right there is what would make me feel unsafe in my own hands.
Imagine you cut yourself and it feels like a goddamn orgasm. Do you do it again? That's not the question. The question is what else is backwards in my brain and how can I ever feel safe?
How do I know if someone else is ripping me off of I can't measure value? How can I know what conditions are comfortable if my feeling is off?
Choice theory is pretty important to me. I'm currently being ripped off by my employer and employers everywhere are all doing the same thing because people in my category are mollified. We're not doing anything about it because it's easier to let someone else take the fall individually. We should have some kind of inherent feeling to help us all gauge what's fair to react to and what shouldn't be. Do you let the thing slide and suffer for it, or do you fight back and suffer for it? The suffering imposed in both situations is certainly being measured by those who are controlling us financially.
I assume they refer to smoking weed. It can show you the mountain before you is not always high, and that it is not always a mountain.
Sober, you might feel completely different about some specific problem, but with this you can actually take a look at it and deconstruct the problem in peace
It about how much you are influenced by chemicals made by your body in your day to day life.
Like how much your emotional state of mind depends on your body chemistry going perfectly.
Getting high on weed gives you a noticeable, controllable disruption to highlight this effect.
In my experience, it made it very clear how easy it is to have a disconnection between what is happening in the "real world", my perception of it and what happens in my brain.
Basically your brain is a big box of chemical reactions that happen regardless of what's going on in the world, and you unconsciously interpret the world through whatever your brain makes you feel at the moment. (For example, think about the fact that you don't notice your nose most of the time, it's there at all times but your brain filters it)
I don't think you even need to get high. Financially I'm earning the most I ever have. However, emotionally I'm the worst I've ever felt. My circumstances should, in theory, mean that I should feel the best I've ever felt and yet that isn't the case.
The reason is pretty simple though, my mental health isn't being treated with medication right now. I've had to accept that for myself, I can't therapy and self-help my way out of my mental health problems and that medication is the only way for me to continue to survive. Thankfully I'll be starting again next week and I'm looking forward to feeling good again.
I'm literally losing friends by nature of death. It's been humbling and horrifying, and I don't know how to make sense of it. I'm terrified and there's no getting out of this roller coaster.
I'm sorry friend. Sometimes we can't make sense of things and that's okay. It's also okay to be terrified. I hope you're hanging in there. The pain you're feeling must be immense
The problem is obviously that you're not exchanging your finances for drugs with which to feel good. Check out that money to happiness exchange rate!
Getting high just increases my anxiety more...it has never made me happy or relaxed me in any way. So this isn't quite as universal of a statement as you might think.
Getting more anxious arbitrarily when high would also support their statement. They didn’t say that getting less anxious was what indicated a disconnection between feelings and reality
Now this is an actual good argument. I might just have to concede that I'm wrong here in this case then. At least, anecdotally. I don't know anyone who gets high and is just.......the same. Which by your argument is what it would take to falsify OPs claim. Nice catch!
I used to enjoy it, but over time I ended up in a similar boat. Just a huge bust of anxiety, especially socially. But on the other hand, I feel pretty okay in the day to day. I've come to see it as a sort of forced introspection - not necessarily revealing anything I don't already know about, but bringing it all to the surface and forcing the mind to see it. In that respect, it could still be drawing a line between feeling and how things are going.
Not that it makes it necessarily more universal, but I think there's a grain of truth.
I think some of it depends on where you live, what repercussions you have if caught, and how safe you feel when doing them (environment, friends, activities, etc.). I'm good now, but when it was illegal where I live, I found it harder to enjoy weed.
There also tends to be a level of anxiety felt strongly by those who bought into the "just say no" era of the war on drugs. That's not bad, and I definitely understand it having been on the "drugs are bad, m'kay" side of things, but the more your believed minor drug use turned you into a junkie, the harder it was to question that.
My older sister is one of those types who still believe the propaganda. I get it and do not push it, but when she brings it up, I talk honestly about it. I think it's helped her feel comfortable about the idea, but not enough to try it. I respect that.
I used to wonder if the extreme panic/anxiety spirals that weed gave me were because I knew subconsciously I was a loser with nothing going for me. Now my life is very secure. I have a job I enjoy and am compensated well enough, I have a wife, a daughter, and I live in a more favorable country than before. So I tried smoking weed again to see, and wouldn't you know it? I immediately launched into a panic spiral over what a fucking loser I am.
....you're really gonna pull that? Order-of-word semantics? I'm simply pointing out that your statement is not universal. And you're gonna reply with an "I didn't say that"?
My rebuttal is "Getting high does not reveal for everyone how arbitrary the connection is between how you feel and how well things are going..."
Is that clear enough of a statement for you now?
Whenever I talk about getting anxiety from weed, someone inevitably hits me with the “try a different strain!” as if I haven’t tried to mango strains, oil, vaping, and edibles lawl
One thing that did completely take away my anxiety while getting high is CBD. More CBD than THC in a bowl and I have a great high. Give me straight THC and I'm more than likely not going to have a good time
CBD itself won't get you high, just get you chill. I enjoy CBD in itself. I use CBD, CBG, and THC everything. I only use a little bit of THC, more of the CBs.
I guess CBD can get you a bit high but it's not like you're baked. You know you've consumed something. Although, it's possible CBD in itself will do nothing for you. CBD is best when mixed with other cannabinoids like a small amount of THC or mixed with CBG.
A lot of great research is going into CBD and I'm all about it. It shows all the positives without a lot of the negatives. The PTSD and depression research is especially helpful knowing how many of my fellow vets are suffering from such ailments!
I also want to say that dry herb vaporizers played a big role in my anxiety reduction also. Being able to control the temp to get certain terpenes is great and the high and feeling is a lot smoother. I start off at a low temp and work my way up in one bowl so I slowly get all the effects of it all. Also greatly reduced the amount of bud I was using
This doesn't help. Just like some medications can't be taken by certain types of people, it's not outside the realm of possibilities that someone's experience is different than the norm or different than your own. We should be helping, educating, and loving the experience, not denigrating those who have experiences outside of our own or expectations.
I implore you take time to consider the person's experience, and how yours may not be the only one, before insulting them for theirs. Nothing but love and kindness your way. Be well!
As I've gotten older, this is true, but in the reverse of what is implied. I can be like "man, what a great day, I got a ton done, I'm feeling very proud of myself, I think I'll hit the vape."
Cut to two hours of anxiety about a misspoken word in the midst of the aforementioned day punctuated by two panic attacks about tomorrow.
Man I'm sorry that that's how you experience it. When I'm high I listen to my favorite music and zone the fuck out. The real world rarely enters my thoughts.
Often I'll think about projects I want to work on and get mega inspired from random stuff I find on the internet. Of course, the motivation evaporates when I'm sober, but at least I took notes while I was blasted 😂
It doesn't happen every time, and it happened a lot less when I got high more often. Now that it's rarely (more like once a week instead of once a day) it seems to happen more. I think it also has something to do with being older and having significantly more responsibilities.
I do sometimes miss getting high more often, but I actually find I'm overall much happier with my life. I'm not saying that happened because I'm high less. The opposite really, I think I feel the need to get high less because I'm generally just happier with my life.
I also know it fits into peoples' lives in all kinds of different ways. I'm friends with all day, every day smokers who are quite happy with their lives, quite accomplished, and have tons of responsibilities, so I don't think there is a correlation in that sense. I just don't want you to think I'm trying to subtly criticize! I'm not. 🙂
Don't worry, that definitely wasn't my impression. I'm glad you're in such a position that you don't feel the need to get high all the time. And besides, if the thing that stresses you the most is a misspoken word, it sounds like you're doing just fine!
It's telling that you feel the need to post this comment only a day after explaining how you don't want to be alive.
Uh yeah both bits of info describe me pretty well. Also, who immediately goes to check someone's post history?
I remember your name from a different thread where you were also being needlessly and impotently angry, and I went to confirm it was you. It was, and your post I'm here referencing was five posts ago, it was literally on the first page when I clicked your profile.
I noticed, when I smoked like a fish -- taking a hiatus from October 1 through the end of the year -- I noticed a lot more connections between bullshit than when sober. It offers you a bit of insight that either makes you say, "hmm," and move on with your day, or drives you to anger that you can't see such things while sober.
I've found it gives you perspective that things really aren't going that badly.
Or, you get anxious and you think things are way worse and scarier than they are but for me that's only if I make a.mkstakr and get way too high
I'd argue that drugs can help the individual do things opposite their current nature. To shake them out of the box they're currently stuck in. Some people can see how the way they feel doesn't match their current situation on their own steam. Some need drugs to help them focus on that. The questions we don't ask ourselves when that connection is noticed are the ones that have the strongest possibility of allowing us to change our views and remove that which is unhelpful from our lives so we can be the best version of ourselves.
I've been noticing in my own life lately that things are going great on all fronts and yet I'm miserable. I had not paid close enough attention until I had to bring up the discussion of how our language (literal words) shape our perception of reality with my kids. Now I'm seeing why I'm mostly miserable because I'm actually hearing what words I use daily. Language shapes us more than we realize.
Concentration skills gained through meditation and self contemplation can help us without drugs. Though I'd argue that drugs are often key to breaking cycles so we have the energy less spread out and we can focus on the issues we actually have. There is a time and place for them. They cannot become a crutch.
Yeah, mindset and words definitely matter. I used to roll my eyes at people that would talk about gratitude, but starting your day by writing three specific things you're grateful for helps reframe how you look at the rest of the day.