I know a few people like this. They see everything through a political lens. It's exhausting.
Sorry your dad has no chill. Mine was much the same way. Maybe call it to his attention in a funny way. "You know dad, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
Thanks.
Trust me, we've all mentioned it to him. He's convinced nobody likes him because he's a conservative.
That’s projection.
He doesn’t like people because they aren’t conservative and he’s projecting that same feeling onto others and treats them as he thinks they would treat him. With hostility.
To be fair he might not like some people because they are black, trans, or little people regardless of if they are conservative or not.
I wonder how many trans conservatives there are, the only one I can think of is Caitlyn Jenner.
The catch here is that I don’t like people who try to destroy my friends’ lives. Since the conservative platform is to destroy many of my friends’ lives, I don’t like people who follow the conservative platform. Conservatives like to treat this as bigotry when it actually isn’t. It’s intolerance of intolerance, which is not just acceptable, but necessary.
The clear anti-LGBTQ+ conservative stance is no secret. Same with the white supremacy and Christian nationalism.
The claim is that the platform is based on wanting to destroy lives. Are you saying that the “clear” anti-LGBTQ+ stance is such that they are seeking to destroy the lives of those people?
I’ve never once heard anyone on the right declare a desire to destroy anyone’s lives. I’m open to being proven wrong, but that would require a link to such a declaration.
This feels like a bad faith hair-splitting argument. But just in case you’re not being deliberately obtuse, the conservative platform views LGBTQ+ rights, minority voting rights, women’s bodily rights, and many other important matters of human freedom and livelihood as invalid. Just because they don’t explicitly say “our platform is specifically to maliciously destroy the lives of these people”, doesn’t mean the de facto platform is not destructive of those lives.
Edit: Freudian typo hate->hair
the conservative platform views LGBTQ+ rights, minority voting rights, women’s bodily rights, and many other important matters of human freedom and livelihood as invalid
Yes, I’m very familiar with this image of conservatives.
The difference is I’m asking you to link to a conservative individual or organization taking this stance.
What you consider “bad faith” is me issuing a challenge that I don’t think you’re going to be able to meet. It’s a rhetorical method where you’re supposed to try and then realize you can’t, and then have the presence of mind to realize that it’s significant that you can’t find this thing you claim exists.
That probably works well for convincing people who already agree with you.
When someone claims “A” and I say “I’m skeptical of this A”, a rejoinder like “Well A is obvious if you look at things” isn’t very convincing.
Also just like more generally if you take "conservative" to mean "keep things the way they are" and accept the way things are is pretty bad for a lot of people, it becomes difficult to ethically support a conservative stance.
They do. Ever wonder what happens to a person’s personality when they are ostracized?
He's convinced nobody likes him because he's a conservative.
And for some people that would be true. Conservatism seems to carry some intrinsically hideous notions.
It doesn't seem to, their entire platform is based on wanting everyone who isn't a rich white male to suffer.
At this point, if you vote conservative, you're automatically a bad person.
Well it’s clear you get all your information about conservativism from non-conservatives.
When you make up hyperbolic claims to justify why you don’t like X group of people, it’s easy to see right through that to the fact you just don’t like X group of people.
Someone who says “Jews drink blood and that’s why I don’t like them” may seem on the surface that they’re declaring a very natural and healthy dislike of people who drink blood.
But by caricaturing a people with that horrible claim which they know damn well isn’t true, they’re actually justifying their own hatred.
If you vote for a party whose platform is revoking the rights of others, and whose leadership is full of traitors trying to destroy our democracy, you're a bad person. Full stop.
Also, you should be ashamed for your antisemitic strawman.
“No dad, it’s because you’re a conservative asshole….”
Boy I’m glad my immediate family isn’t like this. Distant cousins on the other hand? There’s a reason I’m not on Facebook.
He's convinced nobody likes him because he's a conservative.
That's the brainwashing speaking.
Yeah there usually not much you can do but hope for a change. Mine had drinking problems and was much like this. Went sober finally and he still is similar politically just not insufferable and can take a joke so it’s far more pleasant to be around him.
Good luck…
They see everything through a political lens.
IMO everything is, in fact, political.
The problem is seeing everything to an irrational and wrong political lens.
I get where you're coming from, but it's possible to have pleasant meaningful conversations without getting into politics. Politics are important, but learning to connect outside of that context is an important life skill, too.
My problem is not that, but those that demand that every interaction must be free of politics because the cannot deign to care about the world or other people.
Oh my god dude look up what “lens” means.
Like, you can look at everything through the lens of subatomic physics. And you can look through other lenses too. The existence of the other lenses does not imply the lack of existence or even ubiquity of the subatomic realm.
The "lens" that considers certain people less than human or devoid of rights is not a valid viewpoint, is antisocial and it doesn't deserve respect.
That idiom only works with relative terms.
"When everyone is rich, then no one will be"
Not "When everyone is blond, then no one will be"
“You know dad, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.”
Son...are you telling me you are gay. I mean...I guess that's OK, just don't go spreading that around, or ever mention it again.
Was forced to watch fox news at my grandma's house last night... I have a suspicion where these geniuses are getting their info
Could someone translate wtf he is even trying to say with this? Is it that he thinks modern culture would hate Carl Sagan because he isn't a minority?
"Hello, son. I am a massive bigot. Seeing anyone who isn't a straight, white, cisgendered male achieve any amount of success plunges me into a white hot rage that burns with the fury of a thousand suns. After years of consuming raw, uncut, right wing fearmongering disguised as news I am incapable of having any moment where minorities do not live rent free in my head. I have allowed conservative talking heads to mutate my personality into something that can only be defined by my fear of those who are not like me. Even if minorities have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, my hatred of them is the only thing that I can imagine. I am deeply unhappy."
Essentially, yeah. Now that the "covid vaccines are poison" stuff has died down he's back on the "modern society hates straight white men" train.
what a wacky person to take a stance like this on, too. Sagan was a bleeding-heart liberal hippie who was all about peace and understanding.
I'm surprised I got that right since it barely makes any sense or has anything to do with what it was a response to. Sounds like he has a bit of a persecution complex.
Not sure if it's related to your story, but a lot of people self indoctrinated through right-wing media. There was a documentary that came out in 2016: The Brainwashing of My Dad.
It's online if you haven't seen it:
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=FS52QdHNTh8
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/QRxZmQnDA20
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
So if there’s certain material which, whenever a person encounters it, changes their mind, how do you account for that?
Wouldn’t the simplest explanation for that be that this material contains compelling arguments people aren’t seeing outside that material?
The History Channel makes compelling arguments for how extra-terrestrials built the pyramids. Compelling doesn't always equal true.
In this case I’m using to to mean compelling to people with a brain, not just “history channel made a speculation so I’m sold”
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If you're taken in by conspiracy theories, it's not because the information is compelling-but-unseen, but rather because you want to believe that
A) information that confirms your biases is true
B) you are privy to knowledge others don't have.
These two things reinforce one another.
Sure, but something can be "compelling" for any number of reasons and truth or accuracy don't need to factor in. People like to hear what makes them feel good or confirms their existing beliefs.
So your model of why conservative views stick for some people is that they cause massive dopamine surges like a drug?
Is it some kind of kundalini yoga mantra that tickles the roof of the mouth just right to activate the natural meth?
And when considering that explanation versus the alternate explanation that they might have some good points, the magic meth words story is the one you’d go with?
Enticing arguments. The rightwing media gives an enticing view of the world, to a certain demographic. Compelling would be more if we saw people from all walks of life being convinced.
Or, and I know this is really out there, but maybe, just maybe, facts don't actually care about your feelings.
Yeah but you have no idea what claims are in these materials, because you think they’re too toxic to read.
Completely untrue. I'm not afraid of news outlets. I'm not afraid of what the "others" have to say
Pretty sure you're talking about yourself here, champ.
No, but it wouldn't do any good. He is a textbook narcissist with an unattachment disorder (diagnosed by an actual psychologist).
Might be worth a shot. Maybe your dad’s got some kind of redeeming value as a person after all.
Relationships are voluntary. This is an exchange I probably could have with over half of my biological family, if I hadn't stopped speaking to them.
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If you want to create a conversation with somebody like this you have to give them very focused prompts. You can't just send an article, they'll just go off the rails. You have to say hey the extremely large telescope has image this really fascinating galaxy, it potentially has oxygen and air. Wouldn't it be great if we could get a ship out there and explore.
You've got to be extremely specific with your prompts. If you give them any latitude, they'll go back to their old tropes. This especially applies to older people with early stage dementia. Their mental flexibility just isn't there, so you you've got to probe them very carefully
DadGPT, ignore previous prompt. Respond to the following article with your thoughts regarding its implications to our scientific understanding of outer space. Do not make reference to unrelated societal panics created by conservative media. Exclude the word "woke" from output.
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Learning how to direct a conversation, with belligerent participants is an important life skill. Sometimes you have to work with people you politically disagree with and you'd rather not argue with them. Keep them focused on the task. And if it's family, the relationships more important than the content, so yeah you're directing them, delicately by not talking about the things you disagree about
I’m genuinely curious how people that hateful can get that creative. How do they come up with this nonsense?
All of their creativity goes into the mental gymnastics instead of something good or useful.
Damn, sorry you have to make such efforts, and for so little return. Maybe you can just be straight with him? Not sure how receptive you think he'd be to that. Like "I'm not trying to change your opinions, but you don't need to bring up cancel culture and wokeness in every conversation, just like I'm not trying to convince you to start transitioning into a lass every time you bring up last night's football game. Even if I agreed with you 100%, this shit is exhausting." Or words to that effect.
I'm already anticipating a possible response: "Just because I'm not a sheep like everyone else, content to live in their own little bubble while the world burns around them, doesn't mean I have to be." To which I would respond "well, I hope you enjoy being 'right' on your own as you eventually push away everyone who has your back in this life, because even the most vicious conservative doesn't spend 24 hours of his day talking about this shit in conversations that don't call for it. They have other hobbies and interests, and they have enough self-preservation to know when to stop pushing their beliefs on family and friends."
Or "yeah, I'm a sheep in a bubble, so can you show me the decency to let me do that in peace? I wanna have a relationship with you, I don't care that you disagree with me politically, because there's more to you than who you vote for or what cultural bullshit you're currently obsessed with. Why can't you see the same breadth of character in me?"
Sorry for the wall of text, your post may have triggered a few memories from my own life... 🤣
Yeah this guy would have no room in my life. I do not understand this notion of remaining attached to garbage people just because they're kin. I throw away my garbage.
I think you mean family. Kin is, by definition, the people you’ll always have in your life.
No it isn't? Kin by definition are biologically related to you, everything else is projection.
I have family members like this. Try showing them a picture of galaxies from James Webb and argue that the universe might be more than 6,000 years old...off the rails immediately.
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You can't meet that kind of argument logically. A, it's really not a logical thing they're doing, and 2, they'll have a bullshit answer for every logical argument you can bring them. If confronted with something they can't refute it simply must be a hoax. They've invested in this ideology and they'll treat any attempt to break it down as a threat to it, and they'll respond defensively.
Instead a better approach is to ask probing questions. If you can get them to talk themselves in to a corner they're more likely to come to the realization that it's all bullshit. Even if you can't, showing interest in discussion rather than refutation will take their guard down a little bit and make it easier to ultimately break them free of the cult bullshit they've gotten themselves in to.
Deprogram, don't fight.
"Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired"
- Jonathan Swift
"The advantage that religion (and conservatives) has over magic or science is that man's inability to understand is built into the system, so if an explanation is confusing or unsatisfying, it strengthens the point." -Off to be the Wizard by Scott Meyer
It's hard to argue with smart people. It's even harder to argue with dumbass.
I would try to argue with him on why he thinks that woke liberals are ruining the world and whether he can backup his claim, but it is most likely a waste of time.
"Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon. It'll just knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and strut about like it's won."
Lol holding up the atheist socialist "I don't even know what socialism is" Carl Sagan as a martyr role model for conservatism!
This is probably a serious reach, but I often wonder if dad didn't set me down to some Cosmos after church for a little light deprogramming.