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The rent is too damn algorithmic — DC Attorney General Brian Schwalb is investigating RealPage, a company that helps landlords set rent prices, for potential antitrust violations

The Rent Is Too Damn Algorithmic - Washington City Paper

https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/631461/the-rent-is-too-damn-algorithmic/

Attorney General Brian Schwalb is investigating RealPage, a company that helps landlords set rent prices, for potential antitrust violations.

The Rent Is Too Damn Algorithmic - Washington City Paper

The rent is too damn algorithmic — DC Attorney General Brian Schwalb is investigating RealPage, a company that helps landlords set rent prices, for potential antitrust violations::Attorney General Brian Schwalb is investigating RealPage, a company that helps landlords set rent prices, for potential antitrust violations.

37 comments

30mag

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Bgugi

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I'm just waiting for the day some corporation sends out a press release that says "lol, you got me bro."

30mag

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HawlSera

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The only time I've seen this happen is in an episode of Iron Fist

phx

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While they're at it, investigate the use of digital price tags on store shelves, especially grocery stores

Pika

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I would much rather have to deal with digital tags then stupid paper based ones. If they were done properly it should just be a simple "update price" and it sets to both. With paper tags you have employees that don't update all locations so you get discrepancies.

kittenspronkles

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I think the worry is that they can change the prices dynamically based on who is in the area.

chaorace

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That... seems like a silly concern? At best I think you could pull off tricks based on specific timeslots of the day/week (e.g.: lunch rush, weekends, business hours) and most of that was already realistically feasible through bossing around normal humans -- no tech required.

Maybe I'm off-base, but it seems to me like the following things would severely hamper the efforts of anyone attempting to do this at scale:

Exploding the complexity and error surface across all price-setting procedures
Micromanaging, per location, when/how prices change to compensate for locality-specific stuff like daylight hours and foot traffic
Avoiding the very legally dubious scenario of prices autochanging in the time gap between taking an item off the shelf and paying at the register

All of that effort in exchange for what? A few extra quarters on the margin if you do it right but losing a few dimes on the margin (or a class action suit) otherwise? I can already see middle-manager heads exploding in contrition. It might happen someday once active AI store management finally oozes into place... but until that day comes I think shoppers can feel safe knowing that they are merely getting gouged in the same old fashion as their forebearers.

agent_flounder

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"that guy looks loaded, pop the prices, quick"

CmdrShepard

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But what happens when they put the items in their cart and walk to a different area before walking to the checkout? Seems like that'd be difficult to track in a brick and mortar store. Online, this absolutely does happen.

Pika

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that's gonna been with paper-based as well but yeah I can totally see it happening

deweydecibel

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With paper based, they're paying employees to go around and alter the prices, which is too expensive and time consuming.

Digital price tags can be changed on the fly, at once, potentially even automatically.

agent_flounder

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Uh not instantly. Not storewide in a moment. Make it networked and you can change prices per customer as they walk each aisle.

phx

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And that's my point. The digital tags are already being setup that they can adjust within under a minute. People get off work at 4-5pm, better jack up prices for the next few hours!

A bunch of people buying bread at a given time, jack up prices!

Recorded a larger number of people entering through the front turnstile. Yup, pump up those prices!

phx

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And with digital tags they can update at any time, so unless you've got a video camera running to price that bread was $3.99 and not $4.99 when you picked it up off the shelf...

XTornado

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?? I don't think paper was stopping them from adjusting prices as needed.

Eheran

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What about them?

slumberlust

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They commonly don't reflect the actual price at checkout. It's difficult for consumers to track and catch, and be if apathy (they didn't get around to changing the prices which are sometimes volatile) or malevolence, it's still an issue.

mosiacmango

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Just wait until you use that stores phone app for "discounts" and the wifi/mac address sensors stores already use to track generic customer habits also dynamically updates the price based on your past purchases and public data about you as a person.

Some stores have moved to scanner guns/pick it up and go checkout so once you pick it up it gets easy to leave, reducing price checking/indecison.

Bundle all this together and you can have dynamic, person to person gouging based on socio-economic level.

Eheran

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Ooof, wow. That would be illegal in my country.

Fades

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All of this inflation is artificial as fuck

Potatos_are_not_friends

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My rent went up by 1200 in five years.

I used to put money in a savings account.

I have employees who are now looking for roommates.

henfredemars

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Is it really antitrust if the algorithm correctly concludes that you can effectively charge infinite money for basic needs like food, shelter, water, healthcare that humans need to survive?

mosiacmango

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The issue is that it sets the same prices for all its clients, so they all move in tandem. The more clients in one area using it, the stronger the profit for everyone because their prices move in lockstep. It creates the prices via its collision mechanism.

This is the same thing as those parties colluding to all raise their prices in tandem, they have just outsourced the collusion.

agent_flounder

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Streamline your Price Fixing shenanigans with our Tenant Screwer 3000™

Pohl

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Yeah, competitors setting their prices collectively is classic trust. The fact that they all hire a contractor who writes software to set the price, that doesn’t change anything. This is trust and it is against current law.

Yewb

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10% additional tax on any second or more property you own, boom housing crisis solved

CmdrShepard

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Totally agree with this or at the very least penalize anything over a single rental property (in addition to their residence) so that middle class people can still benefit from this while rental corporations get penalized heavily.

vector_zero

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> Rent increases to compensate for tax hike

> Surprised_Pikachu.jpg

KevonLooney

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Economics doesn't work like that. Prices are already as high as the market will bear. Few people intentionally leave money on the table.

More likely:

Some owners will eat the tax increase
Others try to raise prices
They can't get higher prices immediately because supply and demand are the same as before the tax increase
They consider eating the cost or selling the property
Property prices decrease due to greater supply
Former renters and investors who are ok paying the tax buy the properties

End result: more owner-occupied property, some of the tax is paid by the remaining investors and renters.

vector_zero

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Maybe I misinterpreted your original comment. Are you suggesting a that the taxes increase by 10% of the going rate (e.g. 5% -> 5.5%?), or the taxes increase by 10% of the property value (e.g. 5% -> 15%)?

If it's the latter, then that makes more sense. That would be unsustainable for a landlord, because no way in hell can someone pull an extra 50k out of their ass each year on a 500k home.

psycho_driver

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Do YARDI next. Or maybe at the same time.

RanchOnPancakes

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I know someone who worked for them back in the day and let me tell you. Every scummy thing I read I have no proof of but from what I know of the company I believe.

MiltownClowns

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Its a business model that advertises artificial price inflation for its special club of users, but it only affects the poors. This could go either way.

HughJanus

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Any kind of algorithm used for type of thing is going to be trying to increase rents. If enough people all use the same algorithm, price fixing is what you'll get.

It's not necessarily malicious intent, it's just the way the software works, which opens the discussion about the role of using algorithms in rent calculations in general.

HawlSera

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No it's definitely maliciosu intent

Lightrider

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alienanimals

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The people that implemented this system knew what they were doing and should be thrown in jail.

scytale

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My apartment uses them. I hope this nails them down.

Fedizen

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We should force apartments to be run as non-profits similar to utilities with strict rent price regulations. Would this discourage new housing? No, it would just shift from developers building rentals to developers building condos.