@MattMastodon @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis The problem with using it for long term electricity storage is leaks, of course. It's a weak greenhouse gas (sort of).
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/17/pollutionwatch-hydrogen-power-climate-leaks
@MattMastodon @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis There seems to be a lot of uncertainty around the cost of green hydrogen. The first three Google links differ wildly on it.
Natural gas has certainly increased the cost of grey hydrogen lately.
If the problem is the cost of electricity, that's easily solved by producing mainly when there's a surplus of green electricity. However, if the cost is the capital outlay, that's harder. Which is it?
Of course, we can and must require by law that all new capacity be green. Current incentives also include blue, but there is more green hydrogen actually being built.
@flux @QuinceDaPence The other common gotcha with new train lines (e.g. HS2) is:
What if we get a modal shift from internal flights to trains? If air demand is constrained by supply (i.e. landing slots), that means there will be more long-haul flights, and overall emissions increase!
There is some truth in this. But it just means we need to drastically reduce our aviation capacity, and increase prices, at the same time as building more train lines. We could start with a frequent flyer levy.
@flux @QuinceDaPence Concrete and steel (for stations, track, etc) matter. So does the electricity used to maintain stations, not just propel the train. So lifecycle emissions of a train are immensely complicated, plus then you get into how to route a new rail line without destroying too many ecosystems.
Even so, clean electricity is the easy bit compared to making planes clean. More trains please.
@oo1 @mondoman712 @CouldntCareBear As regards the wider picture, I agree that some demographics / constituencies have *way* more influence than others because of first past the post, and our politics diverges dramatically from what people actually think. People are much less cruel and bigoted, on the whole, than our current politics suggests. Politicians know this but only care about the marginal constituencies, or more often their own leadership ambitions in a soon to be smaller and out of office party.
Practically speaking, plenty of people drive because public transport isn't available or is expensive. A small investment in buses, combined with modest deterrents such as ULEZ, could shift a significant number of drivers. But to get to where we need to be - 70%+ fewer miles driven - we'll have to solve a lot of other problems e.g. housing, trains, etc.
@oo1 @mondoman712 @CouldntCareBear Yes but the stuff about ULEZ is largely fear-mongering. It will be completely irrelevant in a year's time. Most of the people worried about it won't actually be affected by it. And across London as a whole it's pretty popular.
There is plenty of historical experience across many countries on this. They're initially seen as possibly a good idea, then as it gets closer, people panic, then they get enacted, then people get used to them and *mostly* support them.
@Atemu @Aatube Also, replacing every ICE car with an EV isn't happening. It isn't a coherent strategy. With current technology and infrastructure, anyone who doesn't have a garage or a driveway will pay a lot more per mile at a lot less convenience.
Sure, we could build charging points down the side of every street. We could wait for better EVs. But both improving public transport and expanding EVs to 100% will take time and cost significant infrastructure development and materials, beyond a certain point.
The drivers who will stop driving in response to cheaper faster more available buses are not the ones who will buy an EV. We can get them at both ends.
@Atemu @Aatube This is my standard response to FUD about EV carbon emissions.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change/
EVs do improve the situation. And the electricity mix is rapidly improving in most countries, it must continue to do so, and frankly it's low-hanging fruit compared to some of the other problems. But I agree that we will have a faster transition if we have fewer cars. More and cheaper buses will get us maybe 30%, but for the rest we'll need to change cities, change housing, build new rail lines etc. A lot of degrowth measures involve large amounts of construction, social change, and political challenges. They take time, potentially more time than we have.
We need to do *both*.
@marmo7ade @queermunist Who is "they" here? Cyclists?
Plenty of cars don't stop for stop signs and traffic lights too. At least around all the crossings near where I live. Now, it's possible that there are timing issues, but AFAICS the mentality is it's okay to keep going as long as the car in front of me is moving. Regardless of the state of the lights.
@matthewtoad43
@climatejustice.social