Seems to me a lot of people here pretty hostile to Joe. I can only say he has been more than open and interacted with good faith with guests that I listen to than anyone in "media". His talk with Bernie Sanders and his agreement with certain aspects of Sanders agenda should dismiss the claim that he's a libertarian shill. I try to approach him as a topic in good faith as well.
He's being called a neandertal because he seems to agree with a lot of fringe opinions. I try to think of how I would react if talking to a person who I have no idea about their area of expertise and how I would deal with claims that they make. Sure he gives a voice to cranks, but he also gives voice to people across the spectrum, some that I actually want other people to hear from. That's kind of what free speech is about right there.
Do not hide behind "freedom of speech" - you are completely misinterpreting why people don't like Joe Rogan.
The #1 criticism of Joe Rogan is that he gives an equal platform to real science and pseudoscience on the biggest podcast in the world. He's turned plenty of nutjobs with absolutely terrible theories into household names.
Fair enough. I don't feel like I'm hiding behind freedom of speech as much as I'm saying that it's fundamentally important to the functioning of a healthy society. With that comes knowledge that some people out there are going to be dishonest shits. If what I'm saying about it's importance is true, then that should be the starting point for any discussion like this.
The question is then, who get to decide what is appropriate to talk about? What percentage of the people he talks to have to be agreeable before he comes off as a good actor? I would never have become a leftist if it weren't for information out there that didn't fit the national narratives that we get from existing im the US.
This whole covid fiasco has been an excellent example of people who were off narrative (lab leak, anti shutdowns etc) being at least partially vindicated by the actual outcomes later in the game. It's not always the case, but it happens and we should be aware of that.
The problem with freedom of speech is that not everybody has an equally sized platform to be heard from.
Who gets to be heard isn't based off of who has the best ideas or has everybody's interests at heart, it's based off of who is willing to say the most outlandish things, or is willing to tell people what they want to hear, or sometimes simply because they have alot of money/power.
I used to listen to Rogan a lot, but I remember a few instances adding up over the years and I distinctly remember the instances that made me eventually say "this guy is not a good person."
When he interviewed Milo Yiannapolis, I was genuinely upset Joe gave him a platform to spew his hateful rhetoric. Milo is a toxic person whose xenophobic, misogynist, and transphobic rhetoric directly hurt a lot of people and Joe simply gave him more ammo.
When his old friend Duncan Trussell visited the podcast for one of the last times, Trussell and Joe were celebrating his move to Spotify deal, and in the middle of a drunken ramble, Trussell warned Joe not to field Ben Shapiro, that Shapiro was not a good person, to which Joe simply shrugged it off.
While I'm unsure if the two are on good terms today as I no longer listen to either podcasts, Trussell is one of Joe's long term friends and it made me respect Joe a lot less that he wouldn't engage with his friend on this topic with a genuine discussion/debate. This struck me as one of the first instances where Joe drew a line in the sand, displaying that criticism of Shapiro was somehow off limits.
His indulgence of Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris has not aged well as both have been revealed through the careful scrutiny of time to have been vectors that infiltrate, manipulate, and inject grade school level philsophical viewpoints into the mainstream public discourse as if these belabored arguments haven't already been repeatedly disproven in academic circles. This is made very apparent when they encounter actual intellectual debates like the Peterson/Zizek debate which demonstrated Peterson didn't understand even the most elementary aspects of Marxism.
The harm of Joe's platform can be exemplified by the fact that Peterson is still more culturally relevant. This is due in part to the fact that Zizek could never be on the Rogan podcast because his ideas are honestly too intellectually robust to be of interest to the majority of Joe's audience, and pose a strong existential antithesis to capitalism, much stronger than Bernie Sanders, I might add. But a philosophical mind like Zizek's is exactly who anyone respectable on the right would need to contend with in order to pose a legitimate argument for capitalism. The fact that Peterson was posed as some sort of equal to Zizek, and that their debate was one of the most watched in recent history, points to the power of Joe's influence in adding legitimacy to Peterson's platform when honestly Peterson shouldn't have any. Instead he was, and, to a lesser extent, still is, considered to be the greatest proponent for capitalist and traditionalist thought.
Lastly, Joe stood up for his long time friend Alex Jones multiple times, making excuses for him when things looked bad, and failed repeatedly to call him out on his bad faith conspiracy lunacy. The last time Alex Jones was on Joe’s show, which I believe was one of his last Youtube shows, I stopped watching. I disavowed Joe as a shill for the right wing, and I'm honestly ashamed I gave him so much of my time and attention.
Sure he has some left-leaning guests, but he also claims that January 6th was instigated by the FBI, and pushes an anti-healthcare agenda. The ire he gets is well earned and justified.
Do you really trust someone who took numerous traumatic hits to the head to give solid political and health advice?
I'd have to look at those claims to know if that's actually true. It may be, but media/internet hyperbole is so overplayed I'd wager it isn't actually true. Like I said though. I don't know about that specific instance.
The thing is, if the FBI hadn't framed so many Muslims in the US, during the war on terror or fascilitated the Whitmer kidnapping, maybe claims like that wouldn't gain traction as easily.
I can only say he has been more than open and interacted with good faith with guests that I listen to than anyone in "media". His talk with Bernie Sanders and his agreement with certain aspects of Sanders agenda should dismiss the claim that he's a libertarian shill.
"He agreed with Bernie on like 2 things (because he just goes along with whatever the last person to talk to him beleives) so all of his comments about covid being fake or Jan 6th being a false flag are irrelevant and he's definitely nit a right wing shill guys. Freeze peach!!"
I don't think anyone has said he never supports things that are true or positive. That might almost be better because it would make it clear that he's just a nut job like Alex Jones. The complaint is that he gives an equal platform and equal credibility to factual and unsupported ideas, so people end up giving equal credence to both.
It's like when news platforms felt they needed to give equal time to both sides of everything, so they gave as much coverage to climate change deniers as climate scientists, fueling the public scepticism, even though climate change deniers were a fractional percentage of the scientific community. Most agree now that that was a mistake and is partially responsible for the issues we're facing today.
Hes now endorsed Desantis, a person aggressively at odds with Bernie Sanders on a every single political position.
Still think he supports Bernie?
That's kind of what free speech is about right there.
Nothing you described has anything to do with free speech.
He’s being called a neanderthal because he seems to agree with a lot of fringe opinions.
I mean that's just a symptom of the biggest complaint about him. He's really gullible. He's not malicious, but god damn he does not notice a liar when a liar is in front of him. Genuinely I do love his long form content, I love how people can go off topic with him, but some of the people he brings on really should be going in front of Jon Stewart instead.
Like... here's an example of someone clearly lying, dodging questions, and genuinely being sketchy. He's gotten a bit better but would Joe Rogan push this hard against somebody? If someone dodges his question, how well does he bring the topic back to it? Joe Rogan is great when everyone is there in good faith, but would you want him in your corner if you're stuck in a timeshare conference?
This is kind of where I'm coming from. I'm not a regular listener of his so my views may be outdated. I just think a lot of malice is dumped on him that I don't think is necessarily fair. That being said, he is a public figure so being dumb only gets you so far as an excuse.
I also like long form stuff, and I like to talk to people who know things, so at least in an ideal sense I'm positive on his format. B
😂 for the timeshare conference
You're dealing here with mostly teeanagers and bots... they just follow the herd... fairness isn't really something they care about. All they care about is "is he one of us and agrees with every nut job agenda that appears on main stream media".
It's not a coincidence that the top posts here always agree with all main talking points of mainstream media. You're basically facing the most brainwashed people out there, that have the will to defend everything that makes them miserable. Anyone who says anything against it will be called names and disqualified. Joe Rogan is one of those people.
They say "dead internet theory" explains all the botting... I think it's just that the majority of dumb people, who have intelligence comparable to basic bots, are now prominent. Let's not forget that half of the people in the world have below average intelligence. So, don't waste your time. Just read and laugh.
